Pull out your party hats because it is the four year anniversary episode of Says Who. This will be a flawless celebration and nothing will go wrong.
It’s here! The day that was never supposed to come! It’s the FOURTH ANNIVERSARY of Says Who! And, as with every other Says Who anniversary, our very first guest, Ana Marie Cox, returns to reflect on the year passed and the year to come.
Dan and Maureen are fine. They’re great. They’re definitely not coming apart at the seams. Maureen has been to Philadelphia and has a story about a turkey in a hat. Dan has given in to Zoom Kindergarten. Somehow, the phrase “emotional dump” come up and that features a lot, so watch out for that. Anyway, they’re fine. Four years! Here’s to the next four! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Maureen:
All right. Dan, I want you to put-
Dan:
Maureen!
Maureen:
... put your arms up in the air. Arms up in the air.
Dan:
They're up. I have a very low ceiling, but they're up, yeah.
Maureen:
Then, drop to Thickie Chex level. Drop to dinosaur level.
Dan:
Yup.
Maureen:
You got your dinosaur arms.
Dan:
Yup.
Maureen:
Shake them about.
Dan:
There we are.
Maureen:
Shake to the left, shake to the right. Shake to the left and the right. It's the Says Who Four-Year Anniversary Special. Oh, wait. We forgot to do all the introductions. Nevermind. Scratch it all.
Dan:
This episode of Says Who is brought to you by you, through your support of our Patreon at patreon.com/sayswho where every Sunday, you can celebrate a different anniversary of Says Who with our podcast Quarantine Sunday. This Sunday will be the 25th episode of that one, so ...
Maureen:
Goddammit, Dan.
Dan:
... good job, kids. $5 and up gets you access to Quarantine Sunday at patreon.com/sayswho.
Maureen:
Hey, listen. It's me, your friend, Maureen. Hey, it's me, your friend, Maureen. You want to read a book? Do you want to read a book? Dan, do you want to read a book?
Dan:
I don't know you were asking me directly. Yes, I'd love to.
Maureen:
Great. I want to tell you what to do, but ...
Dan:
Oh, gosh.
Maureen:
Listen. The thing is ... You can get a book by me at Barnes & Noble right now for $5. How? I'm going to tell you. You go to the café and then, you buy anything like a coffee or a donut if they have it, or a sandwich. I don't want to tell you what to get to eat or where to go. But if you do that, right by the cash register, somewhere in there, they're going to have Truly Devious and it's $5 with whatever you get. If you're not going in because why would you, you can buy it for $5 at barnesandnoble.com with the purchase of any other book, which is pretty good, right? Right. Dan, it's been just books. Did I nail that?
Dan:
It was good. You did great. Let me tell you about merch.sayswhopodcast.com.
Maureen:
I wish you would.
Dan:
Where you can get your Says Who stuff including brand new for this week. For this week, brand new, a line of Thickie Chex and his All-Dinosaur Orchestra merch. Imagine if us from four years ago heard that sentence.
Maureen:
I just knocked my computer over. I laugh so hard that my diaphragm went out. I tilted my desk and both my drinks-
Dan:
I just heard the words that came out of my mouth in a very different way right now. Anyway, maybe you want Thickie Chex and his All-Dinosaur Orchestra merchandise. You can now get a mug, a tote bag, or a hoodie and wear that on your body because that's where we're at now, merch.sayswhopodcast.com. We've got stuff.
Dan:
Hello? Hello, it's Dan in 2016. How you doing?
Maureen:
Hi, Dan.
Dan:
Hi, Maureen.
Maureen:
Hey.
Dan:
Hey.
Maureen:
Dan?
Dan:
What? Are you excited to record the first episode of our podcast right now?
Maureen:
Dan, you got to listen to me, okay? Now, what I'm about to say is going to seem like it's not possible but you really have to hear me out, okay?
Dan:
I'm excited. This is good. This is good podcast stuff. I've heard about podcast. We're going to make one right now.
Maureen:
Dan?
Dan:
What?
Maureen:
I am calling. This is Maureen from 2020. This is me four years in the future, okay?
Dan:
That's weird.
Maureen:
Yeah. Dan, I have to tell you a secret, okay?
Dan:
What is it?
Maureen:
You know how they were going to be doing this per eight episode because it's just until the election?
Dan:
Yeah. Hold on. Let me just do the math real quick.
Maureen:
Right, right.
Dan:
You must be calling me from eight weeks before President Clinton's re-election.
Maureen:
Okay. Here is the thing. This is a secret all right?
Dan:
Okay.
Maureen:
We do Says Who for four years ...
Dan:
I can't hold a bit. It's just so fucking stupid. It's just so fucking dumb that we're still here. It's the dumbest fucking thing. All right. I'm sorry. Why would we do that, Maureen?
Maureen:
Dan?
Dan:
It's only eight weeks and then, Clinton gets elected because who's going to elect Donald Trump?
Maureen:
Just stop.
Dan:
Huh? Okay.
Maureen:
Dan, let's not pretend anymore. I'm sitting here at a desk literally next to a pile of my own hair which I sometimes cut when I read something that makes me feel nervous. My nose is a little bit running now.
Dan:
Welcome to Says Who.
Maureen:
Welcome to Says Who.
Dan:
Welcome to the four-year anniversary of Says Who.
Maureen:
Dan, are we okay?
Dan:
The podcast that isn't a podcast.
Maureen:
It's a four-year podcast.
Dan:
I remember when you were like, "What if the slogan's "It's a podcast that isn't a podcast" [inaudible 00:07:18]?" I was like, "That's so smart." I was like, "Man, she really is a writer."
Maureen:
Oh, yeah.
Dan:
What a good turn of phrase that is.
Maureen:
So good, yeah.
Dan:
And how clever to just say that for these eight episodes that we'll be recording.
Maureen:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yup. Uh-huh (affirmative).
Dan:
Maureen, hi.
Maureen:
I feel almost dizzy from ... I feel like somehow I revisited an old emotion today in some way that ... I just hacked into something very visceral, and I want to think it's good that I just purged something maybe. Surprise. Confusion.
Dan:
It's probably just a poop.
Maureen:
That is spoken like someone who has a five-year old.
Dan:
Yeah, it is. It is!
Maureen:
First [crosstalk 00:08:16] always, how is Zoom kindergarten?
Dan:
It's fine. It's fitting. The light is truly very beautiful coming in through the window, so it makes Zoom kindergarten feel very cinematic. He stands there in this kind of golden hue streaming in. Thanks to the fact that we are getting upper atmosphere smoke from the West. It's a lot, Maureen. It is weird. We have done this one-year anniversary episodes every year, but this one just hits the [inaudible 00:08:57], doesn't it? That's a lot. Four years is a lot. We have lived entire fucking lives at this point.
Maureen:
We really have. A lot has happened personally.
Dan:
The kid that is in Zoom kindergarten was a one-year old when we started doing this.
Maureen:
Yeah, yeah. The teenage was 11 on the night of the election where you guys made all those pies.
Dan:
Yeah.
Maureen:
Remember you made all those pies and you're like, "He's going to- ... "
Dan:
Yeah. [janice 00:09:30] made some really delicious pies.
Maureen:
He's going to follow-
Dan:
He ran our election map.
Maureen:
He ran the election map.
Dan:
Oh, boy.
Maureen:
This year, he could do the same except he'll be smoking. He'll have a mustache.
Dan:
He could if it was possible to be in a situation where he could get one. He could have a driver's permit right now. He could be operating a vehicle. It's been a long time, yeah.
Maureen:
Dan, I went to see my parents for the first time since the pandemic started over the weekend.
Dan:
Yeah.
Maureen:
I got a Zipcar because I don't have a car. So, I use a Zipcar when I need a car. I got my car and I drove down. Dan, this car had everything wrong with it, everything. I was like, "Oh, this is a good Zipcar because it's real close to my house." And they're real hit or miss. Sometimes, you get in and they're great. Sometimes, you get in and they are haunted. Like, there's an actual skeleton sitting next to you in the passenger seat. You're like, "Ah!" So, I get in and the car needs an oil change. The tire pressure's off. This is wrong. That's wrong. I was like, "Cool." It had some weird trash in it. I was like, "All right."
Maureen:
Oh, I couldn't fix the side view mirrors, so I kept trying to fix the side view mirrors and I couldn't adjust them. So, I got out and I tried to manually adjust me and they don't move. I was like, "Okay." So, somehow I've drive through Manhattan with no side view mirrors, and merge and everything. Also, there was something wrong with the connection when I was trying to hook up the audio. The audio kept going out when I was with the Google Maps. The audio keeps going out and Google Maps is like, "It will take 23 hours to reach your destination." I was like, "I don't think so."
Maureen:
Then, it kept sending me down roads in Soho that made no sense. Finally, I was like, "Oh, it's on pedestrian." So, I had to like ... I drove halfway there with basically no side view, thinking a tire was going to blow out, and it was insane. But I went and it was pretty good. I sat outside the whole time. I was outside and we sat out like on the screen to porch. It was good. I went out into the backyard and I found that my mother had put 17 birdhouses into one of the bushes out back.
Dan:
That some life goals for me.
Maureen:
Yeah, yeah.
Dan:
We do have nine bird feeders now. So, I'm getting there.
Maureen:
You need to up your game.
Dan:
We need to up our birdhouse game, is what we need to do.
Maureen:
But Dan, I need to hop right into this because I have an exciting article to read to you from my home neighborhood.
Dan:
Okay.
Maureen:
Where I come from in Bucks County, Pennsylvania is a real, like one of those hotbed areas that is very important in elections because they're like, "It can go any possible way." It's one of those heavily targeted areas.
Dan:
Okay.
Maureen:
Somehow this article, I think maybe somebody tweeted it to me, floated into my consciousness and now, I'm going to read it to you and it's about what's going on in Bucks County, Pennsylvania. This is from the Burlington County Times by JD Mullane of the Bucks County Courier Times. Are you ready?
Dan:
I'm ready.
Maureen:
Let's go. "As Trumpster pranks go, it's weird one. Last week, Ryan Erney left his house in the Highland Park section of Levittown. "I have Trump signs on the front lawn," said Ernie, 26, a Temple Owl who works an office gig in King of Prussia." Side note, an office gig? But that's what he's listed as his profession. I just want to say.
Dan:
You know, he got one of them office gigs.
Maureen:
What do you? "I office gig." Okay. "There is also a large, blue and white TRUMP 2020 flag in his front window next to a full-size cutout of the 45th president. As Erney headed to his car, he noticed an addition to his Trump lawn display. Placed between two Trump signs was a red shopping cart from Redners, a supermarket not far from his house. "I thought, what is a shopping cart doing on the lawn?" he said. The contents of the cart is what was so strange.
Maureen:
"The rotting carcass of a bird of some sort, maybe a frozen turkey, I'm not sure," he said. The bird was set atop a plastic silver party tray, its juices leaking and sending a foul odor that drew a cloud of flies. "There was a party hat on top of it," he said. "It's some sort of message, obviously from someone who doesn't like my signs." You mean like a you'll-sleep-with-the-fishes type message, except with a frozen turkey? "No," he said. "Since it showed up after the first day of the (Republican National) Convention, I figured the message was, "Enjoy your party, turkey." Oh, boy.
Dan:
That's some pretty good interpretation, actually.
Maureen:
They have a picture of it, and it is a red shopping cart. Then, sitting on a plastic silver party tray is just a turkey with one of those cold packs that come with the turkey, like absorption packs.
Dan:
Oh, yeah.
Maureen:
Like it's leaning on a pillow. Then, there's just the party hat.
Dan:
Someone was at the grocery store.
Maureen:
I guess.
Dan:
And was like, "I'm going to show that Trump house who's boss. I'm going to buy a $20 turkey, park it on their lawn."
Maureen:
The article goes, "I filed a complaint with the Middletown police," Erney said. "Since it happened overnight, nobody saw who put it here. The police said check with my neighbors to see if anyone's cameras got it." A neighbor has a camera aimed at the street, but its view fades into blackness beyond the sidewalk. "So, we can't see who did it," Erney said. Throughout Levittown, a largely Democratic place-
Dan:
A perfect crime.
Maureen:
I know. Imagine having to call the cops because someone has left a turkey with a party hat on your lawn.
Dan:
How have we done this for four years?
Maureen:
Dan!
Dan:
How?
Maureen:
It's a turkey with a party hat.
Dan:
How?
Maureen:
We just show up.
Dan:
How for four years?
Maureen:
We just show up.
Dan:
Do we? Oh, my word.
Maureen:
Yeah, we just show up.
Dan:
To what?
Maureen:
Turns up.
Dan:
Why?
Maureen:
People-
Dan:
What curse are we living under?
Maureen:
Did you [crosstalk 00:17:09]?
Dan:
[inaudible 00:17:12] digging my yard. I'm going to dig something up.
Maureen:
If you hear my yawn, it's I feel like I had an emotional dump at some point where just like, I had a lot of ... You know what I mean. [inaudible 00:17:31].
Dan:
Oh, I have an emotional dump every morning, Maureen.
Maureen:
Dan.
Dan:
Anyway.
Maureen:
We got to be serious about this. We talked about-
Dan:
Didn't we? What is anything matter anymore?
Maureen:
Dan, everything matters.
Dan:
Does it? I don't know anything anymore.
Maureen:
Dan, shh. It's going to be fine. Let me just put some of my hair-
Dan:
Four years ago.
Maureen:
I'm going to put some of my hair in an envelope and mail it to you.
Dan:
Ahh.
Maureen:
That's right. Our newest Patreon perk, you donate-
Dan:
Maureen's hair and then [inaudible 00:18:23].
Maureen:
I'm going to put some of my hair in an envelope and send it to you.
Dan:
I just ... I have been thinking all day about our various anniversary episodes. Was there ever a moment that you thought we would be here in four?
Maureen:
Yeah, and in saying that, I genuinely have kind of heart gurgle.
Dan:
I mean, I feel like, especially early on in the first year, you especially were like, "He's done in two months, in four months."
Maureen:
How dare you? How dare you, sir?
Dan:
But always, every time, there was never a sense of we'll really be here in four. Like, every time it's like yeah, this is probably our last anniversary episode.
Maureen:
So, enjoy it.
Dan:
But is it?
Maureen:
I mean, honestly it's probably a good sign that we're here, isn't it?
Dan:
Is it? Is it?
Maureen:
I'm going to go with yes.
Dan:
Really? Why?
Maureen:
It could be worse.
Dan:
Could it?
Maureen:
Yeah.
Dan:
I haven't left my house in six months. The sky is gold from fires.
Maureen:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). It could always be worse.
Dan:
I guess.
Maureen:
So you should feel better now.
Dan:
Good, thanks.
Maureen:
I'm trying to help you here.
Dan:
There is no helping me, Maureen. How are you, Maureen? How has your week been? You got to see ... I thought when you were telling that story about visiting your folks and the car, I thought you were going to go with the, "So, I drove to see my parents," in a driving metaphor of the last four years. That's where I thought you were going with that story.
Maureen:
Well, I made it. I made it just fine.
Dan:
There you go. Way to go.
Maureen:
You know, when you drive through North Jersey towards New York, if you've ever wanted to know where the worst people in the world are, they are driving in North Jersey around New York. It is absurd the things that you see. People drive completely diagonally in giant light-up cars at 120 miles an hour. It is terrifying. It smells like industrial sewage and toxic waste. Yeah, you just go through this area that it sounds like a 10-minute part of the trip that it's just sort of industrial silos, smokestacks, and just this smell of really strong kind of chemical gas stench in the air. Yeah.
Dan:
So, yet another metaphor for right now.
Maureen:
But the driving around there is unbelievably dangerous. It's just, people drive in ways that are just you honestly cannot believe what you were seeing and it happens fairly frequently that people, they'll just zigzag. Like, they're being chased by a crocodile just zigzagging down the road.
Dan:
I mean, they could be.
Maureen:
Yeah, it could be.
Dan:
That's the next thing. North Jersey invaded by crocodiles.
Maureen:
I don't hate it.
Dan:
It doesn't feel all of that outlandish, does it?
Maureen:
I don't hate it, Dan.
Dan:
No. You know what I hate, Maureen? Everything.
Maureen:
Dan, that's not true. I laughed and burped at the same time. I don't think I'm well.
Dan:
Gross.
Maureen:
I'm having some sort of major emotional reaction.
Dan:
You're having that emotional dump.
Maureen:
Stop it.
Dan:
Hey, Maureen Johnson.
Maureen:
Hmm?
Dan:
Let me tell you something. Four years ago, this very week, you and I embarked on a terrible idea just to make this podcast and joining us on that adventure, it's only supposed to be eight episodes. We're getting experts every eight weeks and we're going to talk [inaudible 00:23:17]. It's going to be great. Our very first expert was Ana Marie Cox. She is the host of With Friends Like These from Crooked Media. She writes in a bunch of different places. She shows up on your TV from time to time and she has joined us like the ghost from Christmas past every year-
Maureen:
Every year.
Dan:
... that we have celebrated this podcast and a four-year celebration of this magnitude would not complete without checking in once again with Ana Marie Cox. Happy four years.
Ana Marie Cox:
Yeah, sure. Uh-huh (affirmative). Happy.
Dan:
How much does this feel like a chore now coming to have to talk to us every year?
Ana Marie Cox:
Oh, it doesn't feel like a chore at all. But the problem is like, it's just the whole how are you question now is so super complicated. We have to develop new language. I used to say, "I'm doing okay," in Trump-adjusted terms. But now there's so much more that's worse, right?
Dan:
Yeah.
Maureen:
Right.
Ana Marie Cox:
It's like, I'm doing okay in pandemic-adjusted terms. I'm doing okay in apocalyptic scenario-adjusted terms.
Maureen:
Or maybe just list the stuff that isn't currently happening to you. Like well, right now I am not ... Me, personally, I'm not on fire.
Ana Marie Cox:
Right. I am also ... Yes, I am healthy. I am not on fire. My neighborhood is not on fire.
Maureen:
Our other conversations over the years have been more deep processing, and now I think we're just at get-in-the-van.
Ana Marie Cox:
I just-
Maureen:
We're riding.
Ana Marie Cox:
Yeah. It is so hard to stay present right now. To be present in this moment means processing a lot of shit. I don't know. I mean, we're all going through some degree of trauma right now. My therapist said that a couple of weeks ago and it was a little bit of synchronicity for me because he included himself. He said, we're all undergoing some form of trauma right now.
Ana Marie Cox:
I've just tried to keep that in my mind and I've said that, I hate the term silver linings. It's a terrible term. But there are things that happen in terrible that I think of them as unexpected gifts. The thing that's been coming up for me over and over as an unexpected gift in this time is grace. Sometimes, I call it pandemic grace. It's just the ability to realize that there's an old saying about "You never know what someone else is going through," right?
Dan:
Yeah.
Ana Marie Cox:
Well, we all now know a little bit of what everyone else is going through, literally because we're all going through the same stuff and some of us are going through more. But no one's going through less, right?
Maureen:
Yeah.
Ana Marie Cox:
No one is going through less shit than we are. Everyone has bad things happening. I have discovered that being able to keep that top of mind has made me a more patient person in my real life in general, because we have to be, right, like there's kind of no choice. We have to be patient with ourselves and patient with other people because we're all operating under conditions that humans aren't meant to operate under for long periods of time.
Maureen:
Yeah, that does seem to be one of the points around which all things bend is that we're not really supposed to be able to do this. The fact that we're doing it is kind of amazing.
Ana Marie Cox:
Yeah, yeah.
Maureen:
None of us are built for this.
Ana Marie Cox:
Yeah. I mean, we all deserve gold stars, a round of applause, A plus. Just getting up in the morning, going to bed at night and getting up in the morning is an act of heroism. There's more acts of heroism to be had and we should all try to do the next right thing as we are able to whether that's phone bank, give money, marching a protest, or just tell someone they can't use that language in front of you, let's say. We're all capable of different levels at different times, right? Sometimes, it's just getting up in the morning and just going to bed at night. That is a perfectly okay level to be operating at right now.
Maureen:
Or just even less than that.
Ana Marie Cox:
Right. Sure, sure. Consciousness, let's say, right?
Maureen:
Yeah, yeah. You opened your eyes. It's like in The Princess Bride where he opens his eyes and like, "Oh, you opened your eyes. You moved your finger. Great job!"
Ana Marie Cox:
Yeah, that's exactly right. You took it a little bit to the world and that is a huge accomplishment right now.
Maureen:
I think about that scene in The Princess Bride a lot where he comes back from the dead and then, André The Giant keeps giving him encouragement, "You moved a finger. That's great."
Ana Marie Cox:
Yeah.
Maureen:
That's sort of how I live in 2020. Hey, you sat at your desk. Good job.
Ana Marie Cox:
Yes, and I keep doing that for myself, too. Human beings shouldn't have to do this. There's only this moment to get through, and I'm doing my best. That's sort of a series of mantras that I get to. Then, I have the added bonus of being sober, right? I don't know how you guys do it. I don't know how you all survive. But I get to feel like I fucking climbed Mount Everest if I go to bed sober. Like, I am winning if I go to bed sober and that's my miracle for the day.
Maureen:
That is a miracle.
Ana Marie Cox:
This has always been true. Yeah, it is. I believe it's an honest to God, according to will, divine intervention, fucking miracle. I've always said this which is like, I'm lucky and that I get to know what my miracle is every day. You might have a miracle in your day, too. Like you might've just missed a corona virus like, a friend of yours might've just missed some other calamity but you don't know it. You don't know what bullets you dodged. Sometimes, you do. But I almost get hit by a bus every day and then, I don't. That's a gift right now. That's very much a gift.
Dan:
We are definitely at the point where the absence of shit-
Ana Marie Cox:
This is such a downer. We can talk about the news or something if you want. We can talk about-
Dan:
No.
Ana Marie Cox:
Like soup for family.
Dan:
Please God, no.
Ana Marie Cox:
Let's talk about soup for my family like this catch phrase of the decade.
Maureen:
When this started four years ago, did you ever predict it could be this dumb?
Ana Marie Cox:
Four.
Maureen:
It's just stupid.
Ana Marie Cox:
I mean, I feel like Trump winning forced me out of the prediction business as a pundit. What I can identify with in terms of the ongoing collapse, the calamities glissade into a failed state, as I put it in a column recently is that I am able to register new lows.
Maureen:
Like you can hear sounds that you couldn't hear before.
Ana Marie Cox:
Yeah. I feel kind of proud of being able to keep that bit of humanity going or to increase that ability, maybe. Maybe it's a whole new ability that I feel like I've had to learn which is I am able to register that things are getting worse. I haven't decided there's a bottom and just that everything else after this is just part of the same bottom. I think that would be bad. I think that would be bad for people to stop seeing this flood.
Dan:
I don't think that any of us are able to recover at this point. But to keep going involves a certain level of being able to steal a second to recover something. I'm curious about kind of how you manage that.
Ana Marie Cox:
Since you're not asking about literally not drinking or using drugs, right, you're talking about the more like human part of-
Dan:
I'm just asking how you ... Yeah.
Ana Marie Cox:
Yeah. They're related. Those two skills are interdependent. Because being sober, the downside and upside of sober is that you're present, right? There's no escape. I mean, there's some but the thing that I really have relied on for most of my life is not available to me. I've learned [inaudible 00:33:59] recovery to be present even when things are painful. In the past, I've only had to undergo pain in a much more limited sense, right, and trauma in a much more limited sense.
Ana Marie Cox:
But that presentness is also a way of recovering hope and an ability to proceed because if you can know where you are in a moment, then you can also know something might be different two minutes from now. The thing that I've leaned on a lot in the past few months at least, I don't remember quite when I sort of had the realization, but it's something that I learned in recovery but kind of was able to get out of the habit of thinking about it in a conscious way which is however bad I feel right now, I might feel differently in an hour.
Maureen:
Right.
Ana Marie Cox:
If I'm going to be honest with myself, the brutal truth is I might feel worse. But I feel different. And being able to know that things change, even if they change for the better, that might also change ... I also had the experience of things changing for the better, right? I've been in a terrible place at 2:00 in the afternoon. Then, gone to bed at 5:00 PM and woken up the next day not in the same place emotionally.
Maureen:
Right.
Ana Marie Cox:
I think that's a really good thing to be able to keep in mind in these times is that ability to acknowledge how you're feeling right now, because if you acknowledge it right now, you'll also be able to look forward and say, "Where I am right now is inevitably going to be different in a second because the universe is in constant motion." Everything is in motion. How I feel and where I am in this microsecond is different than where I'll be in any amount of time forward. If things are different, if things change then, I know they can change for the better. It might not always be for the better, but I know it can change for the better. Is that helpful?
Maureen:
Well, yeah. That's a technique that's often used to when you have anxiety or like an anxiety attack.
Ana Marie Cox:
Yeah.
Maureen:
Because when you have anxiety, everything, it swirls out of control very quickly and just this idea that this is a temporary state, that this is like I don't have to worry too much about this because it's all moving. It's all moving.
Ana Marie Cox:
Yeah. Then, things are moving now. We can't know all the movement, too. There's a little bit of like a woo-woo aspect to this for me. But we can't know all the different movements that are happening. For me to judge that everything is shitty and only going to get shittier sure is arrogant. I can't know. The universe, I do believe the arc of the universe spins towards justice, right? The degree of the bend seems pretty shallow right now. But I can't know the machinations that all the interdependent things that are-
Dan:
I just want to talk about pets.
Ana Marie Cox:
Oh, okay.
Dan:
We're near the end of this time.
Ana Marie Cox:
Okay.
Dan:
It's pet time.
Ana Marie Cox:
Yes.
Dan:
How are your pets? How are they coping up?
Ana Marie Cox:
The cats, of course, are oblivious to everything but their own needs. That's cats. It's one of the reasons you have to love them. Our cats are Luke and Leia, the Jedi twins. I joke they take after their namesakes. Luke is kind of a hermit who doesn't really like attention and he only comes out when he really needs to or wants to.
Ana Marie Cox:
Leia is a princess who owns the world and has us all wrapped around her little paw. She's the only being in the house that probably doesn't need a 12-step recovery program. She's just completely self-actualized, just asks for what she wants when she wants it, doesn't take it personally if you don't offer it back. If she wants to cuddle, she's just going to try and cuddle with you. But if you push her off your lap, she's going to, "All right. Fine." That's sort of the personality I strive for. I would like to have that kind of serenity.
Ana Marie Cox:
Then, our dog, [Exley 00:39:07] is literally on Prozac. He's an anxious boy. I just think he picks up on what we feel. He's very sensitive, very smart. He's part Australian Shepherd, part terrier. He is mostly just a much better reminder to play like he literally ... because also that breed combination, he literally needs us to play with him, you know?
Maureen:
Yup. Oh, I know.
Ana Marie Cox:
Yeah, okay. What do you have? What's your dog?
Maureen:
She is a mix of a Plott Hound and a pittie. She is a goober. She also has a leash reactivity. But she's just ridiculous. She's like, "Look. I don't know what your plan is. But my plan is to steal your underwear and then, you chase me around the house for an hour while I hide it from you. Then, I was going to bark at the door and then, you were going to scratch my ears. Then, we'd all have a nap together." So, that's become my agenda.
Ana Marie Cox:
Yes. I would say Exley has sort of a similar, kind of like, "I don't care what your plans are," although he's kind of more like, he's the staring at you until you play with him. He's takes you on a guilt trip. But he has to be played with. There's just no way around it. I have to be ridiculous for at least 10 or 15 minutes a day. Our apartment is pretty spacious. So, we play chase in the apartment and often, it includes me crawling around on all fours. I know, I'm getting at his level.
Maureen:
Same, same.
Ana Marie Cox:
Yeah. I think that's good for the soul to have to be ridiculous for a little bit. Every day, some part of my day involves talking to the dog, involves running around with the stuffed animals, that was the most important thing in the universe. There have been times when it's been really hard to be a dog parent with this particular dog. But I don't think we would be having the ... I think he's definitely part of the reason that I'm able to do the whole happy, be conscious, every day thing.
Maureen:
Yeah.
Ana Marie Cox:
I mean, that ridiculousness is just ... and the love.
Maureen:
Yeah.
Ana Marie Cox:
You know? He's incredibly cuddly, too. He loves mom a lot. He does this thing where at usually beginning of the night, he'll coming at you under the covers. Not just under the covers, though, he'll get right ... He'll be a little spoon, you know?
Maureen:
Yeah.
Ana Marie Cox:
Like, right in my sort of the crease of my hips and just curl up into a little ball. You would have to be ... I don't know what kind of lack of emotion and deadness to the world you would have to not be comforted and enchanted by that, right? It's awesome.
Maureen:
Yeah. They're literally the best.
Ana Marie Cox:
They are, they are.
Dan:
Speaking of literally the best, Ana Marie Cox, you are literally the best.
Ana Marie Cox:
Oh.
Dan:
Thank you-
Ana Marie Cox:
Yes.
Dan:
... for joining us these last four years and see you next year.
Maureen:
It's going to be fun ... Wait. Oh, goddammit, Dan.
Dan:
All right. Maureen.
Maureen:
Dan, I'm trying to tell you that we've had all these important feelings and the headlines are flashed across my computer. That headline is, "YouTube breaks [inaudible 00:43:15] while he livestreamed himself pooping on Nancy Pelosi's driveway."
Dan:
That's good. That's good. It's appropriate. He had an emotional dump.
Maureen:
Dan, how dare you?
Dan:
Well, you're the one that put it into their world. We were all living just fine without the image of an emotional dump, then you just brought it. You dug it up.
Maureen:
Just tweeted it out.
Dan:
Dropped its carcass there on the ground in front of us and now, we got to live with it.
Maureen:
I left you with a turkey in a party hat. But now Dan, now we enter the lead-up. We are officially ... You know how you're officially in the holiday season? We're now officially in the lead-up to the election season now that we've had our four-year anniversary.
Dan:
Sorry. Breaking news, Maureen. From upstairs, we talk a lot about Zoom kindergarten, we talked very little about Zoom high school.
Maureen:
That's true.
Dan:
But important text from the teenager right now, "My gym teacher just described mild sauce from Buffalo Wild Wings as "spicy sauce but not too spicy." He has gym class every day.
Maureen:
Really?
Dan:
Yes.
Maureen:
Has he always had gym class every day?
Dan:
Yeah. Illinois is one of the few states that requires gym class five days a week forever. They changed no real rules regarding school including the fact that gym class has to exist. He has to do Zoom gym which has been hilarious.
Maureen:
Five days a week. What does he do for it?
Dan:
It seems to be that they have designated that period as the sort of social emotional learning section which let me tell you who are just exactly the right people you want leading teenagers in social emotional learning, gym teachers.
Maureen:
I mean, Dan, in my high school I've talked about before, our gym requirement was one semester a year for one day a week.
Dan:
What?
Maureen:
Yeah, one semester a year for one day a week. We wear uniforms and then, we had a changing room, like a locker room but we didn't have showers. So, we would run down and it was 45 minutes beginning to end. We had time to run down, change our clothes into our uniform gym outfit which included the shortest shorts I have ... like, they were tiny. Tiny shorts. They used to make us wear tiny shorts, this T-shirt, and Chucks. That was our uniform gym outfit. Then, we would run upstairs and then, the gym teachers would tell us to try not to sweat because we couldn't ... We had to just put our uniforms back on.
Maureen:
Gym class was like, occasionally we had to play 15 minutes of badminton. The most we ever did was go outside and we had to run once around the playing field or just kind of go around the playing field once. I remember one time it was, we had to sit on those wheel dolly kind of things and just kind of wheel ourselves back and forth across the gym. That was kind of it. Then, we run downstairs, change back into our clothes. Frequently, they wouldn't give us enough time and so, we would get in trouble for being late to class from changing from gym. But we'd only been given two minutes to change.
Maureen:
By the time we got downstairs, put our clothes back on, put our stuff and everything, and back up again, it was not enough time. But everybody are like, "You're in trouble now," because that should've been the subheading of our school, "You're in trouble now." It didn't matter what you did. It's just, "You're in trouble now," whatever. Now, you're just in trouble just because, just because you're there, just because you're alive. Hey, hey!
Dan:
Oh! Amy Carter's Shoe.
Amy Carter's Shoe:
That's right. Happy anniversary.
Dan:
Happy anniversary and happy six weeks until the election.
Amy Carter's Shoe:
That's right.
Dan:
You must just be so excited.
Amy Carter's Shoe:
I'm working from my bed.
Dan:
I bet you are.
Amy Carter's Shoe:
That's right. [inaudible 00:48:41] vote for? Vote for [crosstalk 00:48:43]
Dan:
Bet you're working hard.
Amy Carter's Shoe:
Again, that's not the only thing that's hard. You know what I mean?
Dan:
I don't.
Amy Carter's Shoe:
You know what I mean?
Dan:
I don't want to know.
Amy Carter's Shoe:
Yes, you do. Sure you do, Dan. Hard and stretchy.
Dan:
Hmm.
Amy Carter's Shoe:
Ahh.
Dan:
Hmm.
Amy Carter's Shoe:
How are you feeling about the election? Are you excited?
Dan:
Hmm.
Amy Carter's Shoe:
Hey, you know what you get if you just change one letter in the word "election"?
Dan:
Blection?
Amy Carter's Shoe:
No?
Dan:
Flection?
Amy Carter's Shoe:
Stop dancing around it, Dan. You know what I'm saying? You put an R where the L is and then, you get something that tells you about your man. Erection. That's right. That's right. We're close to the erection. That's right. Just put an R where the L is and then, you get yourself an erection. [crosstalk 00:49:57] erection of 2020. I'm working on a song.
Dan:
It's catchy, Amy Carter's Shoe. That is one-
Amy Carter's Shoe:
Did you know four years ago-
Dan:
... one catchy song.
Amy Carter's Shoe:
... that you would meet me?
Dan:
No. No, I didn't. I thought honestly, Amy Carter's Shoe, I thought I was going to be so far past all of this. But here we are.
Amy Carter's Shoe:
That's right. See you tomorrow.
Maureen:
That's right. Soon we'll be doing three podcasts a week.
Dan:
Oh, Jesus. Six weeks. Six weeks to the debut of Says Two, our podcast about when there'll be an election result.
Maureen:
It's just not a joke, is it?
Dan:
No.
Maureen:
No.
Dan:
No, it's not.
Maureen:
Not.
Dan:
It's not. It's not. It's not a joke.
Maureen:
Have we made the decisions, Dan?
Dan:
No, no. I would say that we haven't?
Maureen:
Right.
Dan:
I would say that we haven't.
Maureen:
Right.
Dan:
I was doing some journaling last night because that's what I do now to be able to go to bed. I ended up starting a page that just was titled What Is Wrong With Me? So, that's good. That's where we're at. It's where we're at over here.
Maureen:
Dan? It's fine.
Dan:
It's fine.
Maureen:
Do we need naps?
Dan:
I need a nap that is longer than anything I've ever done in my whole life.
Maureen:
Says Who feel, why don't you take a nice nap?
Dan:
Man, nap would be amazing. I would vote for whatever candidate that was like, "You know what? You all, once I'm in, I'm paying everyone to get sleep for six months."
Maureen:
Doesn't that sound nice?
Dan:
It sounds incredible.
Maureen:
Yeah.
Dan:
It sounds incredible. But not Maureen.
Maureen:
Let's take a nap right now. Hold on. Hey, Sayswhovians. Just close your eyes for a minute. That's right. Close your eyes. Relax. Relax. It's just your friends Dan and Maureen helping you take a nap. That's right. See, Dan's helping you take a ... He's there.
Dan:
Yeah, sleep.
Maureen:
Dan, help them take a nap.
Dan:
Fine. Yeah, go ahead. Just close your eyes.
Maureen:
Dan, you're not being helpful.
Dan:
It's good. Just chill, you know? [inaudible 00:53:03] where you're comfortable. Just close your eyes, you'll probably fall asleep.
Maureen:
I would totally fall ... Dan, I am on the verge. Maybe I'm having an emotional breakthrough. I'm having an emotional breakthrough, Dan.
Dan:
It's actually called an emotional dump.
Maureen:
Dan?
Dan:
Hmm.
Maureen:
You know what? Just ... That's it. You're not getting any of my hair.
Dan:
Oh, no.
Maureen:
None of my hair for you, sir.
Dan:
Available at maureenstresstrimmings.com.
Maureen:
I was about to say just the tips but that also doesn't sound good.
Dan:
No, it doesn't.
Maureen:
But it is just the little-
Dan:
It doesn't sound good. I'll bring Shoe back in a minute. I don't need that in my life.
Amy Carter's Shoe:
Hey.
Dan:
Goddammit.
Amy Carter's Shoe:
Four years, Dan. Four years, four years. [inaudible 00:54:12]
Dan:
Four years. It is 155 episodes.
Maureen:
Just with the main podcast, right?
Dan:
Yeah.
Maureen:
It's more like 175 episodes.
Dan:
No, that's only of Quarantine Sunday. We've done Town Watch generally, I think that's 50 some odds.
Maureen:
Oh, my God.
Dan:
We've done over 200 episodes-
Maureen:
200 episodes.
Dan:
... of Says Who or Says Who affiliated.
Maureen:
And we haven't even started the third one yet. Dan, I have another question. Are we going to have to read Rage? Are we going to have to read that?
Dan:
Bob Woodward's book?
Maureen:
Yeah.
Dan:
We read Fear and it was Wooding. Do you remember how bad ... We read Omarosa's book and Fear was worse.
Maureen:
Listen, Dan. Listen to [crosstalk 00:55:03].
Dan:
It was just a Wooding-laden boring read, I remember Fear was.
Maureen:
Dan, just listen to what you're saying. Look, we already read Fear. Don't make me also read Rage. Listen to these titles.
Dan:
I don't have the fucking time. I don't have the time for Bob Woodward shit right now. Right before we recorded, Maureen Johnson, I sat on a couch for five minutes and it was like I took a vacation. I don't have fucking hours to read a goddam Wooding-prosed book by Bob Woodward.
Maureen:
Could your teenager read it for gym class?
Dan:
I don't think it's that social emotional learning enough. We're not reading that fucking book. Fuck that book. Fuck Bob Woodward. Fuck it all.
Maureen:
Yes!
Dan:
We're not doing that shit. We're six weeks for this fucking election.
Maureen:
Yeah.
Dan:
We're just fucking lucky that we're here at all.
Maureen:
There it is. There's my guy. There he is. There he is.
Dan:
Agh!
Maureen:
Dan, I got bitten ... My visit to my parents was all outdoors, but that didn't mean that they didn't want me to do tech support for them. So, I tried to fix my father's Alexa from outside without access to power. I had to kind of reach in and plug something in, and there was so little room on the corner that I was literally ... I was sitting on these deck stairs, hanging upside down because that was the only way I could angle my phone to see it, to try to hook up his Amazon account. I'm crushed in the corner of the deck, hanging sort of upside down, trying to type upside down into my phone, and I got bitten shit by all of these mosquitoes. I have on one leg alone 25 bites.
Dan:
Perfect.
Maureen:
I look like I have the measles. It is all over. Did I solve the problem?
Dan:
Maybe you do. Maybe you do, Maureen.
Maureen:
Don't. I already had it then. I'm not getting it again.
Dan:
Maybe you've got measles-two. It's common around now. Says Who is made possible by you, through your support of our Patreon.
Maureen:
Do you feel good about your choices.
Dan:
Patreon.com/sayswho where every Sunday ... I just took my glasses off. Where every Sunday, you can get another episode of Says Who with me and Maureen, if you are just a $5 a month and up supporter.
Maureen:
You want me to send you a picture of my hair ... I'm going to send you a picture of my hair trimmings.
Dan:
Our theme music is performed by Ted Leo who graciously lent us some music yours ago. We are old people. We've gotten old in this time. I see pictures of me from four years ago, Maureen. I look like a different human. Our logo is designed by Darth. Darth's still a red panda, so that's nice. You can contact us at ... You keep claiming that you're sending me a picture. I'm not getting a picture.
Maureen:
I'm going to send you a picture of my hair.
Dan:
You can contact us at @sayswhopodcast on Twitter. You can e-mail at hey@sayswhopodcast.com. You can join the discussion on Facebook /groups/saywhovians. Our Facebook group is moderated by [Janice Stiller 00:58:46] and it continues to be a place of actual [inaudible 00:58:51] and goodness, and people supporting people. Oh, here comes Maureen's ... Oh, gross! Oh, gross!
Maureen:
It's just a little, just the tips of the long hair. When you've really long hair, you just cut the little tip-
Dan:
[inaudible 00:59:04] zoom out it, it looks like a little bug. Then, I zoom in and it's just a little patch of hair.
Maureen:
Yeah. It's literally like maybe a two to three millimeter cut.
Dan:
Spread the word. Subscribe and please leave stars and reviews on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. Sure. You can join us-
Maureen:
What was that?
Dan:
I don't know.
Maureen:
I don't know what that was.
Dan:
My brain just stopped there for a minute because when-
Maureen:
Are you okay?
Dan:
I'm not, not okay. I'm not okay. You can join us next ...
Maureen:
Oh, no. Oh, no.
Dan:
You can join us next Wednesday, September 23rd for our next episode, the first episode in year five of Says Who.
Maureen:
Goddammit.
Dan:
Do you think there are just eight episodes left of this one?
Maureen:
Dan, how dare you?
Dan:
There aren't. I mean, there are technically [inaudible 01:00:16] to lease out of office. So, even if election day goes the right way, we're still around. That's true.
Maureen:
From his basement in Chicago, he is Dan Sinker.
Dan:
And from her closet in New York, she's Maureen Johnson.
Maureen:
Wow, that was really good.
Dan:
Oh, yeah. Try to just, you know, channel a little bit of Leroy Jenkins there.
Maureen:
Yeah, it was good.
Dan:
Maureen Johnson.
Maureen:
Goddammit, Leroy.
Dan:
Take me on your next book tour in 2024 when you are able to go on one again.
Maureen:
I see what you did there.
Dan:
I will intro you every night that way.
Maureen:
I see what you did there. I see what you did there.
Dan:
You're not going on a book tour on 2021. Are you kidding me? From her closet in New York City-
Maureen:
It's so itchy.
Dan:
She's Maureen Johnson and this has been four years of Says Who.
Maureen:
See you tomorrow.
Dan:
Ha!
Maureen:
It's like a chicken. Ha! Is that funny, Dan? Ha! Hey, Dan. Was that joke funny? Ha!
Dan:
I almost threw up.
Maureen:
Ha! Oh, no. Ha! That was a creaking chair.
Dan:
What did you think, I thought you farted?
Maureen:
Ha!
Dan:
You had an emotional dump?
Maureen:
Oh, no. Ha!
Dan:
Oh, God.
Maureen:
We got to stop. What's wrong with us?
Dan:
I don't know.