It's week two of quarantine and everything's fine around the ol' Says Who for sure yes no problems at all we're good here.
*door creaks open* Oh hello! Let us take your bags. Welcome to Castle SaysWhovia, your safe port in the storm. Come in, come in!
Yes, we’re all in here together, but there is plenty of room at the castle. Come, sit by the fire. Dan and Maureen will tell you stories. Mostly Maureen, She’s pretty chatty. And you can admire Dan’s beard! Look how it shines in the firelight! They talk indoor life, plants, ferocious badgers, fancy night, and more coping, coping, coping. Coping! It’s what this has always been, and now is the time to shine.
Oh, and Rand Paul. Because… Rand Paul is Rand Pauling harder than anyone has ever Rand Pauled.
Plus, the return of Sayswhosterpiece Theater, as Dr. Anthony Fauci attempts to be the sole voice of reason in an administration that's gone fully off the rails.
Now, let us take your bags to your room. You can stay as long as you like. Don’t mind the ghosts.
Dan:
This episode of Says Who is brought to you by you, through your support of our Patreon at Patreon.com/sayswho. You are the one that makes this happen in big and small ways. So thank you very, very much. Patreon.com/sayswho.
Maureen:
I'm here to talk to you about books. Right now, I could not recommend them more, really like if you've ever just been like I really need to sink my teeth in those series or something, just like pick it up and try something. I mean honestly, this is your moment for readers, honest. I'm reading a book about goblins right now, and I don't even ... Usually, I don't read about goblins but I'm totally reading a book about a goblin court. I'm liking it. I'm enjoying it.
Maureen:
It's the same one I accidentally spilled some water in the middle of the night and the back cover of this paperback about the goblins adhered itself to my dresser or to my nightstand and so like a transfer. So there's a transfer of this back copy of this book about goblins permanently on my nightstand now. It's like a weird work of art, so I'm just letting it be.
Maureen:
Anyway, books are a way. You can totally leave your house and go anywhere you want by reading a book, magic. I've written books. If you want, look, I've written books if you want them, but you don't have to read mine. But if you do, that's cool. I wrote a whole series about mystery going to a school in Vermont. It's all murders and cool stuff so you could go there for a while. There's three books: Truly Devious, The Vanishing Stair, The Hand on the Wall, but any books will do. And books.
Dan:
And finally, if you need clothes for your sheltering in place, can I direct you to merch.sayswhopodcast.com where you can pick up your own These Aren't Bright Guys and Things Got Out of Hand three-quarter sleeve T-shirt. You could also get that on a mug. You can get other things too. Merch.sayswhopodcast.com, there's still getting manufactured and shipped. So get your stuff.
Maureen:
Really, I forgot to get that shirt. I got to get that shirt.
Dan:
Get it, place the order, you.
Maureen:
I got to get that shirt.
The Passenger:
Welcome to McTestes. How can I take your order?
Drive Thru Kid:
Hello. I have a cough. I was told I could come drive over here and be tested.
The Passenger:
Hey, kid.
Drive Thru Kid:
You're working the drive through?
The Passenger:
Yeah, welcome to McTestes.
Drive Thru Kid:
That name sounds gross.
The Passenger:
Yeah, we took over this ... Do you work here? This is-
Drive Thru Kid:
I did. But I got sent home.
The Passenger:
Right. This is McTestes now.
Drive Thru Kid:
I feel like you should have maybe workshopped that name a little more.
The Passenger:
We did workshop this name. We should have.
Drive Thru Kid:
I'm supposed to get a test. I can't just stop coughing. Can I get a test please? There's a line of cars behind me so can we just do this?
The Passenger:
I'm happy to give you a test. I have one here. It's the world capitals. What is the capital of Egypt?
Drive Thru Kid:
Cairo, but anyway-
The Passenger:
Good.
Drive Thru Kid:
... That's not-
The Passenger:
Really good start. What is the capital of Canada?
Drive Thru Kid:
Ottawa, but anyway-
The Passenger:
That's really good. He didn't know that one either. So you're doing better than ... Yes, so you've got a hundred. Please drive through.
Drive Thru Kid:
Wait, you're supposed to shove something up my nose, I thought?
The Passenger:
Well, I can write a hundred out of a piece of paper and shove it up your nose if you want?
Drive Thru Kid:
That's not ... Do you have tests for the virus?
The Passenger:
For the virus?
Drive Thru Kid:
Yeah, that's what this is supposed to be, isn't it? Your boss said this was a thing that anyone could get tested.
The Passenger:
Yeah, he did say that kid. Things aren't great at work right now. As you can see, I've been sent over here to McTestes and I'm not a medical professional, kid.
Drive Thru Kid:
It seems like you should probably have one of those-
The Passenger:
Yeah, but he put me in charge of this one and-
Drive Thru Kid:
Oh, no.
The Passenger:
Yeah. Yeah, I'm disappointed too, to be honest with you. But he put me in charge. He called me one of his best people for this and then he took a nap.
Drive Thru Kid:
But can I actually get a test here?
The Passenger:
Yeah, you get a hundred if you're really good.
Drive Thru Kid:
That's not the test.
The Passenger:
You mean the other test?
Drive Thru Kid:
Yeah.
The Passenger:
We don't have those. I can kind of ... Let me hear you cough.
Drive Thru Kid:
(coughing)
The Passenger:
That doesn't sound good. I'm going to say, maybe? I'm going to say ... Yeah, I'm going to say maybe. Please drive through.
Drive Thru Kid:
Oh, boy. Can I at least get a fries?
The Passenger:
No.
Maureen:
(music)
Maureen:
Welcome to Says Who, the podcast that isn't a podcast.
Dan:
It's a coping strategy. I am Dan Sinker.
Maureen:
And I'm Maureen Johnson. Hey, Dan. Danny-tan, Danny the panty pants, pansy Dan. Hey.
Dan:
That's just awkward. Hello?
Maureen:
Hello. Hey.
Dan:
Hi, Maureen, how are you?
Maureen:
Oh, fine.
Dan:
You're like a talking finger guns right now. What's going on over there?
Maureen:
That's right. I'm a human T-shirt cannon right now, Dan.
Dan:
It's just personified.
Maureen:
Yeah.
Dan:
How are you hanging in there, Maureen?
Maureen:
Pretty good. Pretty good. For a given value of good, yeah.
Dan:
We've definitely all downshifted what good is at this point.
Maureen:
Hey, listen, we're going to get into this but yeah, I sit around and count all the ways I'm lucky all day long. And I just say, "Thanks for that, thanks for that." I can work from home. That's really ... Because we're all in different positions right now. We're all in the same position and different positions. Yeah, how are you?
Dan:
You know what? We are in now week two of home schooling our two kids which is the biggest change of pace. I've worked from home for nine years. And Janice has been home since her cancer. So the big adaption has been just, "Oh, now, there are two kids here all the time that we need to occupy as well," which has its ups and has its less ups, I would say.
Dan:
But overall, I would say we're actually doing okay. Check back in a few weeks and we'll see where we're at. But I feel like all of the travel in our trailer that we have done for the last two summers was fairly good prep for this, because when you are living four up and a dog in a 27-foot trailer, you learn a lot about how to sort of be in the same space but totally ignore each other, which is something that you need to do now.
Dan:
I remember the first time in our trailer when we were like, "Hey, look," to our kid who at that time was I guess, 12. "I know we're all crammed in this one room, but we're all going to do our own thing here. We're all going to put headphones on. We're all going to watch our own YouTube videos like we're just going to spend some time apart even though we are next to each other." And that has served us well.
Dan:
We're doing a lot together, but that ability to just basically be like, "All right, everyone is checking out and doing their own thing now. That is safest." The other thing that saved us, Maureen, Friday night, we had a fancy dinner. We found some frozen steaks in the back of our freezer. We got dressed up. We put a tablecloth down. It was really nice actually.
Maureen:
I saw you guys doing that and I loved it so much.
Dan:
It was great. We even got the 14-year-old to put a tie on.
Maureen:
Oh, my god-
Dan:
They even got me to put a tie on for that matter.
Maureen:
How did he like that? Was he-
Dan:
He was good. He was the one that thought of it. He was the one that was like, "Hey, we should have steaks, those steaks to celebrate Friday-
Maureen:
Fancy night.
Dan:
... the first week, first weekend." So I think we're going to try to do that every week, is have a fancy dinner on Friday nights to mark the passage of time.
Maureen:
That's a good thing is maybe make a daily thing like a theme of the day, like Mondays are, I don't know-
Dan:
Yeah, our four-year-old today announced, as he was getting dressed, he was all, "Everyone should wear their favorite clothes."
Maureen:
That's not a bad idea.
Dan:
Yeah, I think that just doing stuff to mix it up is important.
Maureen:
Yeah, when the weather got warm one day, I put on a dress. I wore of a lot of dresses in the summer, because they're better in the summer. Then it dropped. Yesterday was very rainy and cold, which was a little challenging in terms of [Papo 00:10:47]. She didn't want to go to the bathroom outside because it was freezing and raining and pouring down. She was like, "Why are we out here? I'm so sad. I don't want to poop out here."
Maureen:
Yeah, we are pretty well setup for the work thing physically. There's a lot of brain fog like when I would try to do work last week, I found that my brain is like, "We're closed for business." Like I sat down to do it and there was nothing in there. It was like I'd open the door to just ... I was like, what's in that? It's an empty closet. There's just nothing. There's no thoughts in here. They just don't exist, which is fine.
Maureen:
I want to talk a bit ... Can we really break down the coping and how everybody is doing really gets ... Because I think you and I probably have some good strategies for how to do this.
Dan:
Yeah, amen.
Maureen:
Because you guys, we know that you're out there. We know a lot of you are, you're in all different positions. Some of you are going into work because you're in positions where you have ... Also, what's weird also is that I'm in New York, you're in Chicago. New York and Chicago are operating like New York, Chicago, San Francisco, there's a couple of places where we are doing basically ... We don't have a shelter-in-place order but we do have a shelter-in-place order. It's the same difference.
Dan:
We do have a shelter-in-place order now.
Maureen:
Yeah, they just didn't use those words but it's the same thing.
Dan:
So I was actually listening to our pal, Akilah Hughes' What a Day podcast today and in passing, she mentioned that there are 150 Americans now in some level of shelter in place or otherwise locked down. And I realized like, "Wow, that's a big number." Also that means that there are 150 million that aren't.
Maureen:
Right, I thought you just said 150. I was like, "Who are these 150 people and where are they at?"
Dan:
150 million, right? Like we are in such a weird thing where me and you who are in these lock downs but other folks listening maybe in states where they have not instituted anything yet. It's bizarre.
Maureen:
Yeah, it's unbelievably strange. So if I watch the news and see people going out, I kind of just look at it and go, "What? Am I on a different planet?" I don't understand.
Dan:
Yeah.
Maureen:
Yeah, so we're all in these different positions but a lot of you are ... So a lot of you are going to be in various ... I think most places, schools are close.
Dan:
I don't even know that that's true. I have yet to see anywhere that breaks down state by state where people are at. And so it is a missing piece of visualization that I wish existed right now.
Maureen:
I did see something.
Dan:
I don't want to have to make it.
Maureen:
I did see something yesterday and I forget exactly but I think it's something like there's three or four states that aren't doing it. So most of us, I would say it's fair to say that most of us are home.
Dan:
Yeah.
Maureen:
And what's also fascinating is that like things I like, for example, a podcast I love in England like the [inaudible 00:14:37] made of it. Seeing all of us at home is wild. It's fascinating because I don't know if we've ever been so kind of separate but together in terms of everybody ... There's never been an experiment like this. This just never happened.
Dan:
And there's also never been the technology that would allow us to see it in real time. If you're living in England during World War II, you weren't able to real-time see people somewhere else that were in their bomb shelters or whatever. We are not only living through an unprecedented time but we also have an unprecedented type of technology that allows us to experience it together, which I think is a help but also is wild.
Maureen:
I was talking to some friends from high school the other day and I was speculating of like how we would all have felt, say, senior year to not go back to school? Would we have liked it or not? And then, of course, we realized that there was no internet at that time. So there wasn't any way to do what's happening now that know ... For example, I was like all the reading I could have done. I was like, well, the library would have been closed. I wouldn't have had any books.
Maureen:
There's no e-reading. There would be no way to get any books.
Dan:
No, there was no Amazon or things like that.
Maureen:
Yeah, there was no video conferencing, or yeah. So in many ways, I'm like, "Yeah, I don't have to go to Catholic school today and wear my dumb uniform and deal with that shit." But at the same time, I just would have been in the house with my parents. I don't know how I would have felt about that.
Dan:
Yeah. There's certainly that.
Maureen:
And we all would have been in the house together. I don't think it would have gone well.
Dan:
Agreed.
Maureen:
I do not think it would have gone well.
Dan:
Agreed.
Maureen:
100%.
Dan:
This is another way that two months for two years in a 27-foot trailer has helped us in kind of being able to give our teenage sons some distance as well.
Maureen:
But if I've had this, all these stuff, I think I would have been down to clown. I think I would have been okay with it.
Dan:
Yeah, just lock yourself in your room with a phone? Worst ways to spend some time, it's basically what I do normally.
Maureen:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). But Dan, I wanted to tell a story about a castle.
Dan:
I want to hear a story about a castle, Maureen.
Maureen:
I occasionally talk about my time in the castle. In 2004 or probably 2003, I found out about a fellowship that is in Scotland where there is a castle. There are a lot of castles in Scotland. People buy them because they're just sitting around. Castles, you want a castle? You can get one. They're in various states of repair but the Heinz family of the ketchup owns a castle. And they use it as a writer's retreat and they give a fellowship.
Maureen:
And every month, they choose five writers and you get to go there and live. They feed you. They do your laundry. You live in a castle. It's all paid for. You just have to get there and they'll take care of the rest.
Dan:
Is it all ketchup-based meals?
Maureen:
No, we'll get to the meals, Dan. We'll get to those meals. I applied to this thing almost as a joke thinking I would not get in. And at that time, it was a hot summer in New York and there was a fucking ice cream truck going past my window every goddamn five minutes.
Maureen:
Honestly, my blood pressure goes up. I was trying to write and this goddamn ice cream truck keep going by. And this whole thing I wrote to them was like, "Please, you got to get me away from this ice cream truck. Dear Lord and Lady, so and so. Why am I going fucking insane with this. I will be so quiet. I will wear quiet shoes and I will do it."
Maureen:
So I sent this up with a ha-ha-ha. I get a call one day in February and we're actually probably like the 27th of January or something like that from a guy with an English accent who says, "Hi. My name is Richard. Our committee chose you but fucked up and forgot to send you your ... Like your letter got fucked up and they didn't ..." He didn't. I'm paraphrasing. "And your letter didn't get there, but you were chosen. You got the fellowship. But it starts on February 1st."
Maureen:
And I was like, "I got the fellowship?" So I had to scramble and pack and buy a ticket. And this was like no small potatoes to do this but I was like, "I'm fucking going to this no matter what." And I packed up my stuff and I flew to England where I stayed with my friends for a night, my friends Simon and Vicki. And then I took a train up to Scotland. And from there, I guess I took a cab or something out.
Maureen:
It's outside of Embra about 20 minutes. But 20 minutes outside of Embra can be a ... This castle just alongside ... There's just a turn on a road and suddenly, you drive through the woods for about half a mile, maybe more. And then suddenly, there's just a castle there, like it's not huge but it's, I mean, still pretty big. It's a castle. It's a large space. And it was nighttime and it was dark.
Maureen:
Now, February in Scotland is dark. The sun starts kind of ... Twilight starts around 2:00. It's not great if you're like me and you really don't like short days. But I was psyched. The whole thing was there's five writers in there, and during the day technically according to the rules, you're not supposed to talk. And I had no cellphone there because at that time, getting an international cellphone was super ... I just didn't have one.
Dan:
Well, and cell service in rural Scotland at that time I'm sure was basically non-existent too.
Maureen:
It was patchy, yeah. And also no internet. It was one of the rules at that castle is that the castle had no internet. No television. The only thing we had, so I had an adorable little room. And they gave us things like ... Did they give a yoga mat or did I bring one? I think I brought one because you can fold those up pretty flat.
Maureen:
We were each given a little radio and a set of headphones so that we could listen to the radio. That was it.
Dan:
Wow.
Maureen:
There was one telephone in the hallway, and in order to call, I had to go through ... I had to have calling cards and it was like a whole thing. So no phone. No internet computer to type on. No internet. They had their own library. Book selection was like, it was pretty good but I was pulling books out of the ... We'll get to it.
Maureen:
So I arrived in this dark spooky castle. All the other writers are, it turns out nice people but very English older than me generally, and very into the English book scene, and I did not know ... They all seemed to know everybody that everybody else knew. It seemed to be like ... It made me think that England was ... It made England seemed like they were 10 people that lived in it and they all knew each other.
Maureen:
So I was very much the American and just like a fish out of water, and we frequently didn't see each other during the day at all. Breakfast, we saw each other. Then lunch was delivered to our door so we got a little package of sandwiches and soup and a snack. At 4:00 p.m. a tea tray with cookies was put out. And then dinner was served. We met in a room at a certain time where we all had a glass of sherry and then we went into dinner.
Maureen:
Now, dinner was great. There's a cook there. She came in every day from the neighboring town. Her food was awesome. And they made vegetarian food for me. They made me vegetarian haggis. She did an amazing job. I ate really well. But basically, we saw each other breakfast and I was slightly scared of these people. Then, at 1:00 p.m. a package of lunch would appear by my door with some coffee in it and the soup and the sandwich and the snack.
Maureen:
And then I would see everybody for the sherry and the dinner. And then we would retire to this room for coffee and tea if you wanted it. And then we would go to our respective rooms. For a month, Dan, let me tell you how that goes. The first thing that happens, I started ... Am I talking too much? You let me know.
Dan:
No, just go for it. Go for it. What does anyone got to do right now?
Maureen:
Listen to your friend, Maureen. So I started keeping a diary of the day by day observation. I posted this once but maybe I should crack it out and do it again. I called it the badger diaries because the woods around us were very, very dark. And my English-y friends, I was like, "What is out there? What can get you?" Because I'd heard about badgers and kind of how vicious they were. And they're like, "No, you got to watch out for the owls. They'll go for your eyes."
Maureen:
So the only thing we had to do during the day for fun was we could walk around the castle, like outside. There were paths to the woods. It was very beautiful. It smelled lovely and fragrant. And they were caves there where apparently William Wallace had hidden out. So they were caves and cliffs and I was wearing these Ugg boots every day because they were sort of like slippers and boots. They were very good for that particular temperature and I was so quiet, I snuck up on a deer one day.
Maureen:
So I kept this diary, and it's just a point by point observation of like meet ... I didn't see anybody for the first 24 hours. Me trying to figure out what my neighbors were like. Excited reports of when the lunch would arrive and just my mental state as I coped with the fact that I was very much alone in the woods in this castle and I was trying to transmit to the world. This was like my document of this time in the castle.
Maureen:
And what I found was this, for the first two weeks, I remember a couple of times where I felt like I was breaking and I thought, "I can't do this. I can't do this. I'm so cut off. It's so dark. It's so, like I can't." But I did. And then I would find that as the time went on, there was this some kind of midway point where my brain just switched and suddenly I was writing all the time. And it all felt very natural.
Maureen:
And I was like, "Well, then now is when I go ..." And I look out the window and then I do my little walk and then by the end, by four weeks, I was having trouble imagining what it would be like to not do this. I was like, "This is just how things are. It's great." Also, the last night we found that there was internet in the castle and there was one jack we had to push away a piece of furniture. We all sneakily ... We were all it turns out like hiding all these facts from each other and like we all kind of broke down and had this kind of weird coming together and we illegally took the internet and we kind of partied and played scrabble, that had all these home truce.
Maureen:
Two interesting things, one night, also the first night I was there, Dan, I accidentally got locked in a dungeon because the library was in a dungeon, an old dungeon from 1100 and the housekeeper didn't know that anybody was in there. So I was in there looking at the books and then I hear this clunk, the turn of a key from a door from like 1500 that's like six inches thick with no way of telling anybody that I'm in there.
Maureen:
And I start pounding on the door. I was facing the very real prospect that I was going to spend the night locked in a cold Scottish dungeon. Fortunately, they noticed that somebody was missing because there were only five of us and they went looking and they found me in the dungeon pounding at the door.
Maureen:
And on another occasion, I will tell you what happened the day that I left to go to Embra and came back because that's my most exciting story. But I've already talked too much. All I'm saying is I went through that process, like I thought I was going to break. Like my brain was going to shatter into a thousand pieces, but it turns out then I would wake up the next day and be like, "Yeah, this is all right."
Maureen:
And then over time, your brain absolutely adapts.
Dan:
No, I think that's very true, and I also think that you're going to have low points and high points. I mean I would say right now my lowest point was this past Thursday evening. I just really got deep into doom surfing and worrying and all of that. And then Friday was easily the best day I've had in this whole thing. It's a good day from start to finish.
Dan:
So you're going to have these. But I feel like, Maureen, you need to share that diary with Republican senators because they're all about to spend a lot of time locked away inside themselves, thanks to the fact-
Maureen:
You hate to see it.
Dan:
You do. Thanks to the fact that Rand Paul announced on Sunday that he has tested positive for COVID-19, which caused immediately multiple republican senators to go into self-quarantine. It has in fact caused a huge power shift in the senate with votes now deadlocked at 47-47. If one more republican ends up in quarantine, then the democrats would technically have the majority. I don't know how that would work, but you hate to see it. But Rand Paul, Maureen Johnson, let me just talk you through his timeline according to CNN's Jake Tapper.
Dan:
A week and a half or so ago, he shut his offices down because of coronavirus, telling his staff to work from home not because he thought he had it but because that was just the orders. But then on March 15th, it was reported that two individuals that attended an event that he also was at art museum fundraiser in Kentucky tested positive for coronavirus. "The source close to Paul says the senator was confident he hadn't interacted with the two, so he didn't think much of it. But then he thought about the particular vulnerability of those who had respiratory and lung issues."
Dan:
Now, side note, Maureen, Rand Paul has lung issues. In fact, he had part of his lung removed because he got his ass kicked by his neighbor over a lawn care dispute of a couple of years ago. So, he realized that he needed to ... A lawn care dispute. He realized that he needed to get tested. So, even though he was asymptomatic, he decided to play it safe. He got the test. Now, according to this, he got the test six or seven days ago. He felt fine and had no symptoms, and he didn't think that he had it.
Dan:
Now, it took a sitting senator a week to get his test results back, seems like an issue. Issue two, you're supposed to quarantine while you wait for your results and he did not do that. In fact, he went about his daily life "including lunching with colleagues last week and going to the senate gym on Sunday morning". In fact, I read that he went swimming in the pool on Sunday morning. After he got the test results, he learned that he tested positive. He immediately left the senate and announced this.
Dan:
Now, Maureen Johnson, I don't usually wish ill on people. And I fear for a lot of the folks that he has likely spread this to. But Rand Paul is an asshole and just six days ago tried to block the very first coronavirus funding bill by attaching various amendments that would have killed it.
Dan:
Also, in a bit of irony, so one of the reasons why republicans are speedily self-quarantining and democrats are not is because the republican caucus has insisted on meeting in person for the last week while democrats moved to video conferencing. So, all these people have been meeting up every day trying to figure out what to do, and apparently, exposing all of themselves in the process.
Maureen:
Well, republican and republicanism as it stands now is about to directly collide with the Darwin Awards.
Dan:
Yeah, considering that the president has currently decided that he's gotten bored coupled with probably a lot of rich people that he's friends with complaining to him about the fortunes that they've lost. And he is trying to get people back to work in a week despite every medical professionals saying that that is the last thing that we should be doing, and despite the clear direction from Dr. Anthony Fauci who's the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, who's one of the only voices of sense in this mix, which, Maureen, it brings us to a special edition of SaysWhosterpiece Theater.
Dan:
(music)
Dan:
Playing the role of Dr. Anthony Fauci, head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases will be Maureen Johnson. Playing the role of Science magazine report, Jon Cohen, will be Dan Sinker.
Dan:
(music)
John Cohen:
The first question everyone has is, how are you?
Dr. Anthony Fauci:
Well, I'm sort of exhausted but other than that, I'm good. I mean I'm not, to my knowledge, coronavirus infected. To my knowledge, I haven't been fired.
John Cohen:
How are you managing to not get fired?
Dr. Anthony Fauci:
Well, that's pretty interesting because to Trump's credit, even though we disagree on some things, he listens. He goes his own way. He has his own style but on substantive issues, he does listen to what I say.
John Cohen:
But you've been in press conferences where things are happening that you disagree with. Is that fair to say?
Dr. Anthony Fauci:
Well, I don't disagree with the substance. It's expressed in a way that I would not express it because it could lead to some misunderstanding about what the facts are about a given subject.
John Cohen:
You're standing there saying nobody should gather with more than 10 people and there are almost 10 people with you on the stage and there is certainly more than 10 journalists there asking questions.
Dr. Anthony Fauci:
I know that. I'm trying my best to ... I cannot do the impossible.
John Cohen:
What about the travel restrictions? Trump keeps saying that the travel ban for China which began in the 2nd of February had a big impact on slowing the spread of the virus in United States and that he wishes China would have told us three to four months earlier and that they were "very secretive". China didn't immediately reveal the discovery of a new coronavirus in late December 2019, but by the 10th of January, Chinese researchers made the sequence of the virus public. It just doesn't comport with the facts.
Dr. Anthony Fauci:
I know but what do you want me to do? I mean, seriously John, let's get real. What do you want me to do?
John Cohen:
Most everyone thinks you're doing a remarkable job but you're standing there as a representative of truth and facts, but things are being said that aren't true and aren't factual.
Dr. Anthony Fauci:
The way it happened is that after he made that statement suggesting China could have revealed the discovery of a new coronavirus three to four months earlier, I told the appropriate people. It doesn't comport because two to three months earlier would have been September. The next time they sit down with him and talk about what he's going to say, they will say, "By the way Mr. President, be careful about this and don't say that." But I can't jump in front of the microphone and push him down. Okay, he said it. Let's try to get it corrected for the next time.
John Cohen:
You have not said China virus?
Dr. Anthony Fauci:
Ever.
John Cohen:
And you never will, will you?
Dr. Anthony Fauci:
No.
John Cohen:
What happens before each press conference? What do you do as a group?
Dr. Anthony Fauci:
We're in the task force. We sit down for an hour and a half, go over all the issues on the agenda. And then we proceed from there and go to an empty room right in front of the Oval Office to talk about what are going to be the messages, what are the things we want to emphasize. Then we go on to see the president and we present our consensus to him and somebody writes a speech. Then he gets up and ad libs on his speech and then we're up there to try to answer questions.
John Cohen:
Right now, why do we have a travel ban on visitors from China when there are few cases in China other than imported cases? What's the logic?
Dr. Anthony Fauci:
I'm sorry, I was just looking at two text messages. One from a governor and one from The White House. I got to get off.
Dr. Anthony Fauci:
(music)
Dan:
Maureen Johnson, it is worth noting. So this was an interview only lightly edited. There is a couple of questions that didn't come in, from Science magazine that came out yesterday morning. Yesterday afternoon, Anthony Fauci was not up on stage with the president. So, that's great.
Maureen:
Oh, you know, damn.
Dan:
You didn't pre-read, did you? [inaudible 00:40:00] I can hear it in your voice.
Maureen:
I also have a real scratchy throat. But I will say this is my high allergy season. This is when my allergy is kicking every year. I have a scratchy throat every last week of March. So, I'm just paying more attention to-
Dan:
The timing of the allergy season with this feels like a real cruel joke. I spent all last week with a very scratchy throat and watery eyes and all of it. And, yeah, it's not great to have all the things that are also symptoms essentially being the things that are allergies.
Maureen:
Yeah. Let's check in with SaysWhovia.
Dan:
Let's, Maureen Johnson. So the SaysWhovia group on Facebook which is Facebook/group/SaysWhovians has been a remarkable place. So many people have joined. Again, if you are joining, you do have to put in a request to join that is simply so that the group does not broadcast into people's news feeds. But approval is quick there, but folks are just doing an incredible job of supporting each other. Folks are getting tested and some folks are sick and people are reaching out and helping each other along the way. I will say one SaysWhovian's mother-in-law was sick and has gotten better, so that is a great thing to-
Maureen:
So what, they had it?
Dan:
... to hear. They had it and they have recovered. So that is a wonderful-
Maureen:
That's going to be the story the vast majority of the time.
Dan:
Oh, absolutely. But, yeah, folks in the SaysWhovian group, they're growing vegetables. I also am growing vegetables, Maureen.
Maureen:
So am I.
Dan:
My lettuce is coming up. I just saw the basil that I planted, the first two shoots of basil have come up from the ground. And I think the cilantro is going to pop tomorrow. I'm excited.
Maureen:
I got little radish and pepper plants in a box in my office.
Dan:
It's good. It's nice. It is a nice way of just seeing progress. Lettuce is especially amazing because it like sprouts in like three seconds. So, I have a couple of pots where I did a line of lettuce seeds. And I'm going to add a line every week so that in a little bit, we'll have lettuce every week.
Maureen:
I have a question about that. So when you grow the lettuce, like for example, I have a little hydroponic garden. I think what happens is you can kind of trim it and use it and then it just keeps growing, I think? I think the hydroponic, it just you can cut it and it just keeps coming?
Dan:
I think that lettuce, I don't know that it keeps coming and keeps coming. But I don't know anything, Maureen. I'm just planting shit. But I do know like if you stagger your seeds, then you've got the ability to kind of have replenishment over time because it wasn't all put in at once.
Maureen:
How soon will your lettuce be usable?
Dan:
I mean it's like a little ... If I wanted to eat spouts, I think I could eat it right now. But I think it's going to be a few weeks still until we have baby lettuce.
Maureen:
I would 100% do this anyway.
Dan:
No, I mean it's ... I used to do a lot of planting in our yard. But then we have started to travel every summer and so planting isn't all that sensible. So actually, it is a nice return to form for me to have a bunch of seeds, plus it's something that me and the four-year-old can do together. But in the Facebook group, there is somebody who's taking it one step further and they are actually growing vegetables from existing vegetables. There is a pretty great photo of the bottom of a stalk of celery that has new celery starting to grow out from the center.
Dan:
We're all reverting to frontier tricks now.
Maureen:
You do that with scallions, the green onions. So if you eat a green onion, that little hairy tip on the end, keep those. Just use-
Dan:
Put in some water.
Maureen:
Yeah, just use the onion and you could keep that. You put in some water and it will grow you another onion, like you can just ... I've done that before just in general, like you just keep them on a window sill and you can basically have all the green onions you want from the green onions you already have. And it grows fast.
Dan:
Yeah. But, yes, so people are growing stuff. People are playing board games, Maureen Johnson. We have started playing Catan with the four-year-old and that is some fun stuff. He joins a team. He's one of us on the team, but it is a joy to play that game with the kid. All he wants is sheep.
Maureen:
Oscar who makes video games, I was like, "It's time. Show me a video game." And he showed me the Goose Game.
Dan:
The Goose Game is great, Maureen.
Maureen:
I've never played it. I was like, "I don't understand. The whole thing is just that you're a goose?" He's like, "Yeah. You're an asshole, you could just try ... You honk and use skills," and I was like, "This makes no sense to me." Half hour later, I was rocking that Goose Game.
Dan:
Yeah, you were.
Maureen:
I was just being a dick. It is. If you've never played the Goose Game, because I'd seen pictures of it but I was like, "What is this Goose Game?" You're a goose, you're an asshole. Your job is that you go around and you can steal things, knock things over. You're trying to like ... The whole first level is that you're just trying to bother a gardener, that's it. And it's so satisfying.
Dan:
Yeah. For those of you who are unfamiliar, it is actually called The Untitled Goose Game. And yeah, it is a lot of fun. My 14-year-old has, basically I've not seen him since Animal Crossing came out on Friday.
Maureen:
Yeah. Also, living with someone who makes video games, they were fully just as their job playing animal ... As their job, they were playing Animal Crossing. I don't know if I would ... I've never played it. I was like, "Do you think I'd like it? Do you think I'm ..."
Dan:
It seems very Stardewesque. In Stardew Valleyesque, you are in a little town that is kind of coming up. You have to do tasks and that sort of thing. I think the biggest difference is I was talking to him about this last night when we were on a walk. A day in Animal Crossing is the length of a day in real life. So, it is a much slower moving and slower progressing game than Stardew Valley in that way.
Dan:
But yeah, people have been playing video games together. In fact, he joined the Says Who Discord group and shared a Says Who hack he made in Animal Crossing. So, you can make all kinds of stuff. It's pretty fun. Speaking of Discord, in the Facebook group, people have started a writers' group specifically a writers' group in a Discord as well. For those of you that aren't familiar, Discord is a sort of a private message board system versus a Facebook or something like that.
Dan:
But yeah, people are helping each other, Maureen. I would say not just within our own little SaysWhovian world but generally, it has been truly heartening to see how many people have been reaching out, helping each other, supporting each other. I have video chatted with people that I have meant to get in touch with for years-
Maureen:
Yeah, me too.
Dan:
... and suddenly now it's like, "Oh, yeah, let's get this one on the books and just chat every week." And it's like there has been a little bit of clarifying to me around what are the things that are important and what is the effort you need to put in to keep them going that I find to be heartening.
Maureen:
We're going to get good things out of this.
Dan:
Yeah.
Maureen:
Mind them, find them. A good training for this was being sick for almost a year.
Dan:
Yeah.
Maureen:
For quite a long time, there were months where I couldn't leave the house. And I couldn't really do much of anything, but you actually find way ... Your body will settle and there's a couple, two things. I was sick for a while. Also, I've had anxiety in the past. And when I had it badly, I threw myself into every single thing that I read about, heard about that could deal with it, and therapy, meditation, medication, exercise, stress reduction, you name it. And as I turns out, that anxiety was based on a form of anemia I had. So basically my brain was freezing out. So it was point to happen really no matter what.
Maureen:
But the thing is you can still treat it. And the thing about it is I would say the most important lesson if you've never experienced it is, it's not a constant. No emotion is a constant. They go up, they go down, they move, they're not solid blocks, even if they feel like solid blocks. If you feel a spike of anxiety, but you're going to, it's okay. It's fine. It's just a thing, you can look at it. You could say ... It's not yours, it's just it. Oh, there it is.
Maureen:
And then try to ... This is an exercise that takes repetition to do it. But noting it, letting it be there, moving on, is it more of a feeling? Is it a thought? Well, there's a thought. Okay, move on. Well, there's a feeling. Oh, my chest feels tight, feeling. Okay, all right. Oh, my head fills like it's full of bees. Okay, that's a thought, that's a feeling. It's okay. Meditation works with time. In time, it will actually change your brain, so this is a great time. I know people are like, "Meditation," but it's very, very useful.
Maureen:
When I got sick, I used a meditation program every single day for a year without fail. They even have ... I used Headspace which I think is a great starter but there's loads of them that you can use. But they have one for pain that was actually very, very effective in reducing pain, like more than a lot of my pain medication because one of the things they tried to have you do is find the pain. Sometimes when you try to find it, you can't. You don't know where it's at, like where is it. Let your brain sit with it.
Maureen:
And it gets real slippery. All of a sudden, your brain is looking for where the pain is and it seems to move around a little bit. It's an incredible way of helping with this. But all of these things are fluid. You adapt. You get sea legs for this stuff. You really do. So, don't think that if you're feeling something, this is the way you will permanently feel because that's not how feelings work.
Dan:
No, not at all. And there are opportunities, so I have for a very long time said I need to not be looking at my phone before bed. And it has been amplified and magnified as I spend two hours before eventually passing out just sort of doom surfing my way through Twitter and other links. And so just a few nights ago, I was like, "You know what? I'm plugging my phone in, in the living room before I go into the bedroom."
Dan:
So, it's not even available to me if I need it because the biggest problem is doom surfing before bed makes me then sleep terribly which I already am not a great sleeper, wake up in the middle of the night and reach over and grab my phone and it's done.
Dan:
So, it is not just a stop me from looking at it before bed but also make so I'm not grabbing it in the middle of the night. And the first night, it felt stressful, like I definitely was like, "Oh, wait, oh," and not just for the bad news but for just like I got very used to being like, "Oh, I should this one thing in my Instacart order and just reach over and grab the phone and add it." But I just made a note of it in the notebook next to my bed instead.
Dan:
But the first night it was stressful. The next second night was also stressful, but last night was the first time that waking up in the night, I did not reach over, didn't look for it and I have felt better, not necessarily sleeping all that better but I feel better through the night as I do it. So, not only am I trying a new thing. I'm also trying to be very conscious about what the effect of that thing is on me.
Maureen:
That's amazing. Also, if you're like I must have my phone in the night, there's apps like Headspace or a bunch of others, Calm, I know has it. Just look them up, you'll find these, I'm sure for free. There are nighttime modes and meditations. There are literally meditations to help you go back to sleep, and you can listen to them and relax into them. Practice your breathing because breathing practice, I do it always. It will help you. Also, it's just good in general. Like you said, these are good things to do in general.
Maureen:
That's the thing, is that if we're wiping the slate clean, we get to ... Making it hard to always say, "I want to start this new habit or whatever," then we just knock everything over. Build yourself a new thing.
Dan:
Yeah, no kidding.
Maureen:
All those people that are like, "I'm embarrassed. I've been out of touch or did not ..." Don't worry. It's all reset. Go ahead.
Dan:
Yeah. But also, I will say for those of you that are like, "How are all these people doing all these things? Like I'm just ..." That's also okay.
Maureen:
Oh, yeah.
Dan:
I have a bunch of friends that jump into action on day one and have stood up all sorts of things from really important measurement sites to measure the virus to really wonderful ... A friend of mine stood up this thing called the quarantine book club that is just a way of bringing people together to meet an author and that sort of thing, so from super serious to fun. And I have been like, I normally stand things up all the time and how am I supposed, like, "I'm not doing this," and then I realized like it's okay. I'm getting my house in order. We've had a big disruption with the kids here and that's fine.
Dan:
Also the people that are jumped in and are moving at a hundred miles an hour right now, they're going to need a break. And at some point, there will be a baton passed to the folks that are then in a space where they're more ready to help or to jump in and do important things or just to do those new things that you'd like to do. Wherever you're at right now is fine.
Maureen:
Yeah, absolutely. Like I said last week, everyone is like, "Oh, it's so great for writing. Let's do so much writing." I just sat there like sitting on my shoulders was a volleyball with a face drawn on it. There was nothing going on upstairs. And also, I basically spent the whole week rearranging the apartment trying to ... It has to have some different functions now because of Oscar's work, et cetera. Because of where we live, we have to have a kind of zone by the door, masks, gloves, et cetera, because in order for us to go outside, we have to pass through one, two, three different barriers and two different public spaces. Or one each, like the space off the elevator. So, it requires a bit more of rigmarole. So there was a lot of procedural stuff I had to do.
Dan:
Totally.
Maureen:
And so I was like, "Wow, I'm the worst. I could have been writing ... I could have written a whole book last week." And I was like, "That's dumb, like don't beat yourself up, like that's ridiculous. This is hard. Don't fucking do that." And also, if you're having anxiety, here's a game I'd like to play. Remember, anxiety is just this thing. Imagine it now. It's a little furry monster. It's round, it's red, it's fuzzy. It looks like a little moppet with a big white mouth and big googly eyes. It's got those little googly eyes that go [inaudible 00:58:15].
Maureen:
And every once in a while, we'll have it and then when one person has it, you're holding it, "Oh, I've caught the anxiety. Here it is, I'm holding it. Look at this googly eyed little goofball, like fuckwit." And then everyone else is like, "Hey, oh, you're holding it right now." And then will kind of pass it around and will take care of each other and little did we know it's ...
Maureen:
But when you have it, remember, it's just that googly-eyed little monster. It can't ultimately do anything. That's the other big thing that you should know about it. It can't actually do shit to you.
Maureen:
It is really like a moppet. It can't do shit to you. It makes it seem it's going [inaudible 00:58:55] and it spins its eyes around and goes, "[inaudible 00:58:57] I'm so scary," and you're like, "You can't do shit, you goofy little nerd." And you pet it. It hates that when you pet it. It's like, "I'm so scary," and you're like, "Nah, look at you little fucknut. Look at this goofy little fucknut."
Dan:
Maureen, it is important to help each other out and that is one thing that has been true with the listeners of Says Who for a long time because Says Who is made possible by you through your support of our Patreon at Patreon.com/sayswho. Our theme music was performed by Ted Leo. Ted, I hope you are sheltering in place and doing what you need to do. Our logo was designed by Darth. Darth, I hope you are surrounded by potatoes.
Dan:
You can contact us at Says Who Podcast on Twitter. You can email at hey, that is H-E-Y @sayswhopodcast.com. You can join the discussion on Facebook at /groups/sayswhovians. Our Facebook group is moderated by Janice Dillard. You can pick up Says Who merch at merch.sayswhopodcast.com, and there is a bunch of great stuff, shirts, mugs. There is a Meet You at the Haunted Mansion fanny pack. There's a lot of good stuff there. Treat yourself, merch.sayswhopodcast.com.
Dan:
Spread the word, subscribe and please leave stars and reviews on Apple podcast or wherever you listen and you can join us next Wednesday, April 1st, believe it or not, for our next episode.
Maureen:
Oh, boy, April Fool's.
Dan:
Won't that be a fun one?
Maureen:
Nobody do April Fool's this year.
Dan:
No. no, April Fool's is canceled.
Maureen:
And I meant to say my camera has arrived, my camera.
Dan:
Hey, hey.
Maureen:
So, Auntie MJ's Schoolhouse setting up for that. So, if you have any ideas on things you'd like on Auntie MJ's Schoolhouse or our bonus episodes which I believe we're recording tomorrow.
Dan:
Indeed.
Maureen:
Oh, well, I guess by the time we discuss that-
Dan:
We won't be able to tell us.
Maureen:
So, suck it.
Dan:
Yes, if you are a Patreon backer at the $5 level of up, the bonus episodes are about to flow like ...
Maureen:
Molasses.
Dan:
... water, like slow water. But we are going to be recording some bonus episodes and we will be putting those out on the regular. There are also, if you have not already chalked up, I think they are somewhere on the order of 30 bonus episodes, they're waiting for you if you have not already binged them all.
Maureen:
So, we'll make them stupid.
Dan:
They will definitely be stupid. And on that note, from my basement in Chicago, I am Dan Sinker.
Maureen:
And from my apartment in New York City, I'm Maureen Johnson.
Dan:
And this has been Says Who.
Dan:
(music)
Maureen:
Ah, you little fucknut.