Says Who?


Episode Summary

Maureen's in Greece, Dan is in Chicago, and the world's turned upside down on today's Says Who.

Episode Notes

Maureen is in Greece, Dan is back in his basement, there's a eight hour time difference  and also mountains and dolphins and while it sounds like paradise, well, it is.

And yet, and yet there is trouble around the edges--the news won't stop. At the time of this recording (the halcyon days of yesterday morning), Brexit had been thrown once again into question and Donald Trump was getting in too deep with the Ukraine.

Of course since then, well, Pelosi spoke and now impeachment has begin. Or something--that bit's still a little foggy if we're being honest. BUT DO NOT FEAR SAYSWHOVIAN, because Dan and Maureen saw this coming and are already making their post-Trump Disney World plans once again.

Because, SaysWhovians, maybe it is happening? Certainly SOMETHING is happening and where would you more like to be than bobbing in a salt water pool with Maureen and Dan like buoys, warning oncoming ships of dangerous waters ahead.

Or, you know, something.



Dan just wrapped his summer on the road, give a listen to Season Two of The Hitch now full and complete with 66 days of adventure.

Maureen's new book The Vanishing Stair is OUT NOW. NOW!

Support Says Who and become a citizen of SaysWhovia by joining our Patreon today! You really can join for just a dollar. Or more if you want!

Your Intrepid Hosts: Maureen Johnson and Dan Sinker

Our awesome theme is courtesy of Ted Leo

We love Darth

Episode Transcription

Dan: This episode of Says Who is brought to you by you. That seems like sad [inaudible] music for the excitement of our listeners. We love them. Your support at helps make this happen, here one episode after our third year anniversary, one episode into our fourth year, we are thankful and happy for you at

Maureen: [inaudible] put music behind it.

Dan: I liked it, that was great.

Maureen: I made the music with my mouth.

Dan: Whoa, you're so multi talented. Is there anything else you do that you would want to make an ad for?

Maureen: Hey Dan. As a matter of fact, there is, Books. Yes, books. I know you've heard of them. Now read some. Yes, I'm Maureen Johnson, author of some books, you can read them. Start with Truly Devious. Now listen to me Dan, listen and listen good. Truly Devious is the first of a series. You've read it.

Dan: I have.

Maureen: You're allowed to say something.

Dan: Well I was just, you told me to listen and listen good. I was really listening.

Maureen: You were listening too hard.

Dan: Oh, well Jesus, get a little more complicated then.

Maureen: All right, listen good, but not too good.

Dan: That's what I was ...

Maureen: Listen medium.

Dan: Okay.

Maureen: Listen kind of a half-ass listen.

Dan: Huh?

Maureen: Listen, that's right. Exactly. Now, Truly Devious. It's the first book of the series. The second is The Vanishing Stair, the third book is called The Hand On The Wall. There will soon be a pre-order campaign where you can get swag, signed books, cool stuff. Details coming soon, but it is coming. It's coming in January, but you have to have read the first two to really truly be prepared. If you already read it, force it on a neighbor or a friend or an enemy. Do it now. That's the end. Books.

Dan: Holy shit Maureen, do we have a lot to talk about today? Are you ready? Oh my goodness.

Maureen: Hey Dan.

Dan: Let's go.

Maureen: Dan.

Dan: Yeah.

Maureen: Have you ever looked at the point where the water meets the sky and realized that the sky itself is a fluid, that the air is, it's all fluid dynamics Dan, and there's really no-

Dan: I know that you're on the Grecian Island right now, Maureen, but it is go time.

Maureen: ... There's no separation between the waves in the sea, the wind in the air-

Dan: We got Ukrainian corruption, we got Brexit Supreme Courts. It's time to go.

Maureen: Have you ever really tasted an olive? Like really tasted, really tasted.

Dan: Let's do this. Whoa, Says Who.

Maureen: All right I guess.

Dan: Welcome to Says Who, the podcast that isn't a podcast.

Maureen: It's a coping strategy. I'm Maureen Johnson.

Dan: And I am Dan Sinker. And Maureen, you are on a Grecian Island.

Maureen: I am. Yes I am-

Dan: You sound Greecey.

Maureen: ... I'm on the Island of Corfu, Dan. It is a-

Dan: [inaudible 00:03:54].

Maureen: Dan.

Dan: I'm hyped up today, Maureen.

Maureen: I can see that. What time is it there?

Dan: 10:00 AM.

Maureen: How much coffee have you had?

Dan: Four cups.

Maureen: You see, I have been absorbing news for nine hours already today.

Dan: So you're already broken. I've only just begun, like the song says, Maureen.

Maureen: I hate The Carpenters.

Dan: What?

Maureen: I hate The Carpenters.

Dan: Wait, how have we done a show for this long, and I'm only just learning that you hate the ... How do you, how does a person hate The Carpenters?

Maureen: I appreciate the beauty of her voice, but it takes me the kind of, I think I remember I just have this fleeting memory of late 70s being stuck in a furniture store for too long, just hearing the mellow tones of The Carpenters bleeding into the shy carpets and feeling profoundly bored. It's the sound of boredom to me.

Dan: I don't know how to deal with this.

Maureen: You run punk planet and you're all The Carpenters.

Dan: So for me as a budding video artist in the early 90s, I watched a VHS tape of superstar, the Karen Carpenter story, by Todd Hayes, where it's all told by Barbie dolls.

Maureen: Oh.

Dan: Did you see that one?

Maureen: No, it's not what I thought it was at all.

Dan: Oh, it is amazing. It is the entire story of The Carpenters, including Karen Carpenter's extreme eating disorders and all of that as told through Barbie dolls, and it blew my mind. And I have always enjoyed The Carpenters ever since that. I can't believe you don't like The Carpenters, Maureen.

Maureen: I mean their voice is clearly ... I'm not denying that her voice is a spectacular instrument, that she's immensely talented.

Dan: Yeah. Rainy days and Mondays always get me down.

Maureen: That's the worst one. That's the worst one of all.

Dan: What!

Maureen: That's the worst one.

Dan: I don't even know how to process this information. I assumed that we were about to spend a good 10 minutes singing Carpenters' songs together.

Maureen: Mm-mm (negative), nope. Man, no.

Dan: How? There's all this intersection with Richard Nixon, like really? Huh? All right. Tell me about Greece. You're in Greece. Fuck The Carpenters. You're in Greece.

Maureen: We have no time. We have no time to talk about Greece.

Dan: We have, is it nice? You've been posting photos to Instagram that I'm assuming are fake 3D renders.

Maureen: No. No, they're not. The view of the water around this house is over 180 degree view. It kind of bends around because we're sort of between two coves. So the Ionian sea goes way around to the left, all around, it's extraordinary. And we are staring, I've never stared at Albania as much as I am right now, but it's ... Right now as we record, I'm indoors, but we have this really big bedroom that has all these kind of glass, French doors and I'm watching the waves break on the beautiful Grecian rocks and the coast and the beautiful sea is, Oh, it's real nice Dan. And also I will say the pool here is this giant infinity pool filled with seawater like really salty water.

Dan: What!

Maureen: So you just get it and you don't even have to swim. You just bob around in it naturally. It's about eight feet deep, but you can just stand in it and bob and you don't have to make any effort at all. It just keeps you afloat. It's amazing. It's the greatest thing I've ever been in.

Dan: I just feel like we should not sully this experience with discussion of current events.

Maureen: Dan, I will say I am eight hours ahead of you, and I have already been watching the news for a long time today because today has been real newsy. So we don't have any time to waste, Dan. We got to get to it. And that means-

Dan: Let's do it. Let's do it then.

Maureen: Are you ready?

Dan: Hit me with your Brexit shot.

Maureen: Major Brexit update. So at around 12:30 Greek time, 10:30 AM-

Dan: Oh, Greek time, about 12:30 in the Grecian Isles, where I am right now and bobbing in an infinity pool.

Maureen: Is this how you're going to do? I'm not. I'm indoors in a bed looking at the sea.

Dan: All right. All right. What happened at 12:30 Grecian time?

Maureen: You're sorry. Listen, Dan, you've got to stop this. You have to.

Dan: All right, I'll stop.

Maureen: All right. Are you ready? Are you ready? All right.

Dan: All right.

Maureen: Let's keep an eye on you Albania. The Albanian mountain's really beautiful actually. But, okay, so listen, so listen, actually around 11:30 in the morning, Oscar comes tearing out the doors and says, "In an hour, the UK Supreme Court is going to go live with their decision about prorogation." Prorogation, quick summary was when Boris Johnson went to the Queen and said, please parol parliament, which means the parliament would be shut down.

Dan: Send them on vacation.

Maureen: [inaudible] Basically send them on vacation to shut down parliament. And the things that the UK ... So there was a legal challenge in various courts around Britain and it was shut down in a bunch of courts, but a court in Scotland held that it was illegal, which meant it bounced to the UK Supreme Court. The UK Supreme court had to decide two things.

Maureen: One whether it was a matter of law that they could even decide or political matter and then what to do about it. So, they came back this morning, Baroness, the Baroness who's in charge of the ... Who's the head of the Supreme Court came out, and she looked nettle as hell. She had a black dress on with a giant spider broach on the shoulder. I mean the thing was-

Dan: Fuck yeah.

Maureen: ... Four inches. Oh, so good. She came out, she said, "Here's the deal." First we had to decide whether or not this was ... We all, there are 11 judges who can sit on the UK Supreme Court. They were all there and they said, "Our judgments on these things are unanimous." At which point Oscar [inaudible] Oh shit. She said first, whether or not this is a matter for us, their decision was a matter for law because otherwise, prime ministers could presumably just shut down parliament whenever things weren't going their way and the sovereignty of parliament had to be protected.

Maureen: And then, their decision uniformly was that the prorogation was illegal. And as such, it's as if it never happened. So they said it's as if when the law on the piece of paper was taken to the house of Lords for ratification, it's as if that paper was blank. Is something they said in the speech. It's as if they walked in with a blank piece of paper. Parliament will not be reconvened because for the purposes of the law, it was never dismissed or recessed.

Dan: Un-convened, wow.

Maureen: It never, as far as the law is concerned, this was entirely illegal and it never happened. That it was some fucking lower the boom.

Dan: And that's unanimous.

Maureen: Unanimous. Everyone was blown away by the decision. So, it's a decision that certainly seems to be a big win for democracy. That Boris Johnson could not just-

Dan: Man, imagine.

Maureen: Yeah, imagine they're having a system that says hey, the prime minister can't just go in and do a legal stuff to make the stuff he wants happen. Pretty wild.

Dan: Huh. I don't know what that's like.

Maureen: I don't know either Dan. I don't know if it would work or not. Seems crazy, but-

Dan: Seems like a wild, wild system. Yeah.

Maureen: I know, but that's what happens. So tomorrow parliament will be back in session, as if they never went away. They're all coming back.

Dan: Are they all going to walk into parliament, but on their way to Westminster, they're going to moon Ted Downing Street, just pull their butts out.

Maureen: Well Boris Johnson was not there because he was in New York at the UN.

Dan: Oh, right.

Maureen: So then we went straight from Brexit coverage right into UN general assembly coverage. So I got to hear Bolsonaro's speech from Brazil and boy, that was something. And once I saw that, I said, "I got to go walk into the sea," and then I just left the room.

Dan: And you went into the infinity pool, that's basically the sea and you bobbed around on your Grecian Island.

Maureen: I actually thought when I was bobbing in the pool, just kind of ... I was like Oh, this is what a buoy must feel like. You just kind of stay like a stick in the water, and you just bob, you don't fall over, you just kind of ...

Dan: Do you now just get in the pool and bob around and go bong, bong, bong.

Maureen: Kind of. I like-

Dan: [inaudible] must love that.

Maureen: ... Just standing there really like stiff. Like I'm standing up, but I'm just bobbing. It makes me very happy. Looked at it takes so little.

Dan: Ah, Maureen, it's like you took off last Wednesday.

Maureen: Sure did.

Dan: And everything went fucking nuts here in the United States.

Maureen: Tell me about it.

Dan: You left, it's like you were the anchor-

Maureen: I was holding it together.

Dan: ... Holding everything down. Yeah. And now, now we're anchor less, as you are doing your buoy thing in another pool.

Maureen: By the way, I just want to say that as you're speaking, Oscar who is in room has emerged from the bathroom where he was bathing, and he's doing, he's trying not to be heard, so he's tiptoeing like they do on cartoons. So I just saw this ... And he was doing it super slowly so I just saw him sort of from my peripheral vision, just this figure, just ... and I just realized-

Dan: Maybe he's stolen a Grecian vase or something.

Maureen: Maybe. Maybe.

Dan: Maureen.

Maureen: Hit me.

Dan: You have left the country, and the country has gone into some sort of fucking crisis ish ... I don't even know how to describe what's going on here, Maureen.

Maureen: Tell me about it, Dan, because I don't know. And you know what, Dan, the sea air will sometimes, you know when the sea air comes upon you, it blows the cobwebs out of your mind. You know what I mean? Just ...

Dan: So, last Wednesday as our three year anniversary show dropped, that evening, the Washington post released a story that an unnamed whistleblower in the intelligence community had filed a formal complaint about something someone probably the president has done, and that the intelligence community inspector general had determined that this complaint was both 'credible and urgent', which should then turn that complaint over to Congress.

Dan: But the acting director of national intelligence refused to turn it over to Congress. This is Wednesday. A lot of question marks in the air at that point, including a lot of people that started sort of a rampant amount of Russian speculation because, of course. Thursday the leaks start coming.

Dan: So first of all, we learned that it indefinitely involves the president and it definitely involves the president making some kind of promise to a foreign leader. Trump on Thursday, denies that he'd made any promises and asks, "Is anybody dumb enough to believe that I would say something inappropriate with a foreign leader?"

Maureen: Right, who would think that?

Dan: Who, who, who would think that, Maureen? So, everyone figured this was a Russia thing, but then on Friday, more leaks. We learned that the conversation in question was a phone call held on July 25th between Trump and the newly elected leader of the Ukraine Valdimir Zelenskyi, where Trump repeatedly, later we would learn that it was eight times in one phone call, asked Zelenskyi to help Rudy Giuliani investigate Joe Biden and his son Hunter's work in the Ukraine. Yeah. So quick sidebar. There is a lot of bullshit around this, around the Joe Biden stuff.

Maureen: Right.

Dan: And I don't want to get in the weeds about it, because it's all smoke and no fucking fire. But the basic concept is that when he was VP, Biden was involved in getting a corrupt prosecutor out of the Ukraine, like getting him off the government of the Ukraine. This was a thing that like a bunch of different governments in the Europe and everywhere else wanted to have happened. Because this guy apparently in a corrupt government, this guy was like extra corrupt.

Dan: And now, these shit bags are trying to loop that into the fact that Hunter Biden, which is, I did not know the Joe Biden has a kid named Hunter.

Maureen: Yeah, I found that out recently.

Dan: That's not a name I would have put on a list of Joe Biden's kids' names. Anyway, Hunter apparently consulted for an energy company in the Ukraine and so there's an attempt to say that this was a favor to his son somehow. But the timelines don't line up because Hunter's work with the Ukraine was well before this prosecutor was. Anyway that is enough of that shit, right. So by Friday, Trump is basically admitting that he did this, right. Saying, "It doesn't matter what I discussed and somebody should look into Joe Biden." And additionally on Friday, because this involves Rudy Giuliani, he goes on TV. Maureen-

Maureen: That usually goes-

Dan: ... He joins CNNs Chris Cuomo to clear everything up, which brings us to this installment of Says Who's trapeze theater. The role of Chris Cuomo will be played Maureen Johnson.

Maureen: Chris Cuomo, you say Chris Cuomo, you say Chris Cuomo.

Dan: The role of Chris Cuomo-

Maureen: Chris Cuomo.

Dan: ... I said it correctly this time-

Maureen: Chris Cuomo.

Dan: ... Will be played by Maureen Johnson. So the role of Rudy Giuliani will be played by Dan Sinker. We join this conversation in progress.

Maureen: Did you ask the Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden?

Dan: No, actually I didn't. I asked the Ukraine to investigate the allegations that there was interference in the election of 2016 by the Ukrainians for the benefit of Hillary Clinton, for which there already is a court finding.

Maureen: You never asked anything about Hunter Biden? You never asked anything about Joe Biden?

Dan: The only thing I asked about Joe Biden-

Maureen: And his role with the persecutor?

Dan: ... Is that they get to the bottom of how it was that [Lutensko 00:21:20], who was appointed-

Maureen: Right.

Dan: ... Dismissed the case against Ant AC.

Maureen: So you did ask Ukraine to look into Joe Biden.

Dan: Of course I did.

Maureen: You just said you didn't.

Dan: No, I didn't ask them to look into Joe Biden. I asked them to look into the allegations that related to my client, which tangentially involve Joe Biden in a massive bribery scheme.

Maureen: Rudy, Rudy.

Dan: Not unlike what he did in China.

Maureen: Rudy.

Dan: You explain to me how the kid got 1.5 billion from China.

Maureen: Rudy, I have no problem with you launching allegations.

Dan: When Joe Biden was still in his-

Maureen: Just be careful about what you say. I asked you, did you ask Ukraine-

Dan: I am very careful about what I say.

Maureen: ... To look at Joe Biden, and you said "No."

Dan: I didn't ask.

Maureen: Then you went on to say that you did, it's all-

Dan: No, I didn't say that.

Maureen: It's all recorded, Rudy.

Dan: What I said was this, I asked them to investigate the allegations that relate to the false charges against the president of the United States. Those allegations tangentially involved Biden.

Maureen: So your answer.

Dan: Biden getting the-

Maureen: It should've been yes.

Dan: Let me finish, Chris, let me finish.

Maureen: Go ahead.

Dan: Don't try to interrupt because you don't like the answer and you don't like-

Maureen: I don't like the evasiveness-

Dan: You don't like what I'm saying and you don't like-

Maureen: Evasiveness I don't like.

Dan: Yeah, you want to distort what I'm saying.

Maureen: I don't want to distort it.

Dan: Because it's totally biased.

Maureen: I'm not biased.

Dan: You are Chris, it's sad.

Maureen: Why would I have you on if I were biased?

Dan: Because Chris-

Maureen: [inaudible] to have this kind of conversation.

Dan: Because it's sad to watch what happened to you, it's sad.

Maureen: Sad what happened to me?

Dan: You're a sell out, you're a total sell out.

Maureen: I'm a sell out?

Dan: You're a sell out, and I'm going to tell you why.

Maureen: Everything must have been cleared up after that.

Dan: It is almost impossible to use that transcript as a script because they are simply yelling over each other. There is a point and I had to check to see if I wasn't hallucinating, but at some point Rudy goes off on a tangent about Hunter Biden's involvement with Whitey Bulger.

Maureen: What?

Dan: I don't even know. It's like he's just free associating conspiracy theories while yelling at Chris Cuomo who's yelling ... It is, I've never seen a transcript as incoherent as the like 20 minutes that they spent screaming at each other on national TV. Anyway, it's real nice because he's basically like, no, I didn't ask them to look into Joe Biden. I did ask them to look into Joe Biden.

Dan: So the weekend happens, Maureen, and Trump basically spends it watching Fox news and Tweeting angrily about how the crooked media isn't looking into Joe Biden and quoting Fox hosts and posting Fox clips and that sort of thing. And then Monday happens, we're recording this on Tuesday, so Monday was yesterday. Trump goes to the United nations where he talks to the press and things went real great, Maureen. Includes things like Joe Biden and his son are corrupt, but the fake news doesn't want to report it because they're Democrats.

Dan: And this one, Maureen, if a Republican ever did what Joe Biden did, if a Republican ever said what Joe Biden said, they'd be getting the electric chair by now.

Maureen: Oh. Oh, I didn't hear that one.

Dan: Yeah. Look at the double standards, you've got a lot of crooked journalists, you're all crooked as hell.

Maureen: Cool.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah, Maureen. Yeah. And then he goes on to say what Biden did was wrong, we're supporting a country, so we want to make sure that country is honest. One of the reasons the new president got elected is he was going to stop corruption. So it's very important that on occasion that you speak to somebody about corruption. You don't talk about corruption, why would you give money to a country that you think is corrupt? Which sure sounds like an admission of quid pro quo.

Maureen: I know.

Dan: Yeah.

Maureen: Give me information on someone running against me and I will give you money.

Dan: Yeah. And in fact it turns out late last night it was reported that in fact the president himself ordered that over $300 million in military aid be withheld from the Ukraine prior to this phone call, specifically citing the corruption in the Ukraine as a reason. So, Maureen.

Maureen: Can I ask you one question?

Dan: You sure can. I know a lot about this now, I don't want to, but I do. Please ask away.

Maureen: Side note, aren't there a bunch of people connected with Trump who have a lot of weird business going on in the Ukraine.

Dan: Isn't that funny? Every fucking thing seems to roll up to the Ukraine when you get down to it.

Maureen: Yeah. Like Manafort's little black book of ...

Dan: All of Manafort's shit was the Ukraine. Flynn's shit included the Ukraine. The Ukraine has been a constant since jump, and here we are back in the fucking Ukraine again.

Maureen: So ...

Dan: So they keep denying that, and they keep claiming that they're going to release a transcript, which we know how that's going to go, right. But they keep denying things like, well, no promise was made, right. We didn't make him do anything, but what we already know about Trump is this is ... You know how the fucking call went. Michael Cohen went and said like, he never tells you to do anything.

Dan: He just suggest that it'd be nice if somebody could do it, and you totally can hear him be just over and over again. Like, well, it'd be really great if someone would look into Joe Biden and his son. You know if somebody could look into Joe Biden and his son, that would be ... We sure wouldn't forget that if somebody looked into that. Just that kind of shit. We want to make sure there isn't any corruption, like Joe Biden does.

Maureen: All right, well, are things better now, Dan? Or are things ...

Dan: It's not a question of better, Maureen. It's just a question of we are suddenly back here at the start of a fucking election cycle where Donald Trump is asking a foreign government for help in defeating a political opponent.

Maureen: Okay.

Dan: We've fucking been here before, Maureen.

Maureen: Yes.

Dan: Yet this appears to be even more blatant, even more obvious. And here's a funnier side, Maureen. The phone call that he did with the president of the Ukraine happened on July 25th. Do you know what happened the day before.

Maureen: July 24th? No.

Dan: July 24th, Maureen, was when Robert Mueller spoke to Congress. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Maureen. So that goes to nothing, clear that nothing comes out of it and he, the next fucking day is like, cool, I'm going to go shake the Ukraine for Biden intel.

Maureen: Okay, cool.

Dan: Here's another weird fucking thing, Maureen.

Maureen: I don't like these weird-

Dan: So all of this Biden, Ukraine shit may sound vaguely familiar because this was a story in the spring of Rudy Giuliani going into the Ukraine to try to find shit on Biden. And in fact, The New York times ran a story on May 2nd titled Biden faces conflict of interest questions that are being promoted by Trump and allies. And it was written by Kenneth Vogel who is a regular, one of the main politics people for The Times, and a woman named Juliana Mendel.

Maureen: Okay.

Dan: Do you know, Maureen, who became the press secretary for the Ukrainian president a month after that article ran?

Maureen: You?

Dan: Not me, but it starts the same, Juliana Mendel.

Maureen: [inaudible] Mendel, okay, that's weird.

Dan: I don't know what to do with that fact, Maureen, but I don't want it only in my head.

Maureen: Thank you.

Dan: Because it's like I've got a fucking squirrel in my brain just fucking running around doing squirrely shit inside my head. And she's not a regular contributor to The New York times. She coauthors a fucking hit piece on Biden, and then she pretty much immediately becomes the press secretary to the president of the Ukraine. I don't know what to do, Maureen, with that. But those are things that happened in sequential order.

Dan: Anyway, Maureen, getting back to it, Trump is playing the exact same playbook he played in 2016, but with the Ukraine instead of Russia, though Russia's all kinds of wrapped up in the Ukraine, so they're probably fucking wrapped up in this too. The big question is, has anyone learned fucking anything?

Maureen: The answer, yes. Is it?

Dan: No.

Maureen: How about the press?

Dan: The press clearly hasn't learned anything. NPR yesterday ran a story that said the headline was something to the effect of the Ukrainian situation, Trump says it's Biden, Democrats say it's Trump. The Democrats, I don't know what their deal is, maybe they're getting somewhere and I don't think we've learned anything, except that fucking I don't even know. I don't even know, Maureen. I don't even know. I know you're bobbing around in a Grecian pool, like a buoy, and I'm happy for you and your buoyiness, but Maureen, I don't even fucking know what's happening anymore.

Maureen: Dan, thing about Greece is, it's the home of myths, legends, creations and stories like Helen of Troy and other myths. Zeus, the miniature. Those are cool stories. The feta, the cook here makes a whipped feta and a smokey Baba ghanoush and grille pita-bread at every meal. You get a big basket of hot grill, pita-bread and fresh-

Dan: Oh, the cook here on your Grecian Island.

Maureen: Yeah.

Dan: You're bobbing like a buoy and the rest of us are in hell, that's all.

Maureen: Dan. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I'm here. I'm sorry.

Dan: It's okay.

Maureen: Look Dan, it's not. It's not okay. It's clearly not okay.

Dan: I just wish I was there too. I want to bob like a buoy, Maureen.

Maureen: I know-

Dan: Look at my beard, it'd be floating in the water while I just go bong. I would maybe do like a Foghorn sound. I would go ...

Maureen: To be fair, we work here. We sit, and we work, and we talk stories and then we swim for an hour, and we go back to work.

Dan: That sounds great.

Maureen: Don't worry, it's not ... I know it is great. We'll look at Albania.

Dan: Sounds great.

Maureen: Stare at Albania relentlessly.

Dan: How's Albania looking?

Maureen: Really mountainous. Last night there was a big thunderstorm that just beautiful thunder rolled over the water, rolled over the Ionian big balls of cool looking thunder.

Dan: That sounds nice.

Maureen: Dan, it's 2019, we need to get away from these people.

Dan: We do. We do. So I have to put a Lucy with the football moment here.

Maureen: All right.

Dan: Because as much as I can't even believe that I'm saying this, I think maybe-

Maureen: Give it to me, give it to me.

Dan: I think I have the sliverest, smallest, tiniest little bit of maybe.

Maureen: Give me what I want.

Dan: Maybe the Democrats are going to pull this shit together this time.

Maureen: Put it right in my vein, come on, finish the sentence. What are they going to do? Put it in my vein.

Dan: I think that we might move towards impeachment.

Maureen: Who told you, who told you that this fall was going to bring and impeachment hearing? It was me. It was me. It was me who told Dan. I said, they're going to impeach, you said no way, I said they're going to do it. You said shut the fuck up, they will never do it. I said they will, you said no way. I shook my butt, I said they will.

Maureen: By the way, they're all coming out, impeachment, impeachment, all the news feeds are saying they're about to go into a big meeting at four o'clock. It's a big, saying there's a big meeting. Pelosi just came out and said something, I'm scrolling through Twitter as fast as I can with this crappy internet connection to see what's happening and for some reason, let's see, let's see. Select committees, committee meeting 4:00 PM. We're not even going to talk about Trump talking at the UN, we're not going to do that. I refuse to do it. We're not doing it. Just know.

Maureen: Yeah, they're having a bunch of meetings, and we'll find out. I guess there's a round four o'clock your time. 7:00 PM so around 11:00 PM. John Dean [inaudible] impeachment must include AG bar for coverups and secretary of state [inaudible] Ukraine along with president Trump. I just want to take a moment-

Dan: I mean it ...

Maureen: Dan, who said it?

Dan: Yeah.

Maureen: Who said it?

Dan: I mean, well ...

Maureen: Who said it.

Dan: You said it. It's not the summer of '73 Maureen, but we are ... Maybe, maybe, I don't know. I feel like I'm tricking myself, tricked myself before, Maureen. But this does feel different because this is actively unfolding in front of us. There is no ability to claim this is in the past, this is ... We have to investigate to pull this information out from years ago. This is literally like breaking news in front of our faces of him doing-

Maureen: Dan.

Dan: ... Fucking shady ass shit.

Maureen: Can I put something in front of you?

Dan: Yes.

Maureen: What if, I just want to say it. I just want this in your head. What if we had Joe all wrong, and his whole move was to take all the fire and then somehow trip Trump up and get Trump to look in the Ukraine for info on him and therefore, somehow, stumble his way backwards into an impeachment inquiry around Joe Biden, which then Joe Biden just says, peace out. I'm not even running. And then Trump goes down to ball of flames caused by Joe Biden and Joe Biden just steps casually out of the way allowing Elizabeth Warren to take over.

Dan: I mean, that feels like some fanfic, but-

Maureen: It is. It's good-

Dan: ... I like that fanfic.

Maureen: I think 50% of that fanfic is actually possible-

Dan: Could we work a handsome vampire into it too.

Maureen: Fuck yeah.

Dan: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's what I'm saying.

Maureen: Stephen Miller.

Dan: That's not a handsome vampire. Oh my God, I just remembered that it was revealed that somebody's dating Steven Miller.

Maureen: Yeah, yeah, they are. Dan, we're not even going to talk about, first of all, Greta Thunberg at the ... Amazing. The only person with the real energy is bringing the correct energy to anything that's going on in the world is Greta. She's the only one meeting the moment with a 100% pure, righteous punk energy. Which means of course-

Dan: This is the one thing I have to say.

Maureen: Okay.

Dan: As the father of children, it is depressing to me that we are looking to children to lead us out instead of letting them be children.

Maureen: Oh yeah.

Dan: And I appreciate the fact that in her speech, she was like you've stolen my childhood.

Maureen: Yeah, shame on you-

Dan: So we really have.

Maureen: Yup. As a YA author, I could tell you that I feel the same way.

Dan: Her, the Parkland kids, fucking children should get to be children and not have to fucking clean up after our own fucking inaction, in order to save their fucking lives.

Maureen: The school shootings, the world burning up. I mean, yeah.

Dan: I find it so depressing. It's such an indictment of everything, including ourselves. Like she is a remarkable child, but also I wish that she could just be a child.

Maureen: But her anger, that eloquent speech. Yup, which means of course that grown ass adults are attacking her.

Dan: Right. I mean that's the other thing. It's like we are asking kids-

Maureen: Including Trump.

Dan: ... To fucking put themselves in the line of fire.

Maureen: Even Trump is attacking her.

Dan: Yeah.

Maureen: It's awesome, it's great. No it's great, and of course, right before we recorded, he gave a speech at the UN that was like the globalists will lose, the ... I mean it was terrible. And I don't want to, you know what? I just don't even have the heart to tell you about it. It's just not [inaudible 00:42:01].

Dan: I want to come back, Maureen, I want to pull us back. I want to pull us back, I want to look at Lucy holding that football and I want to believe that we can fucking kick it, because Maureen, if this ends, we're going to Disney World. We used to talk about our Disney trip on almost every episode, because in every episode it felt like maybe we were on the precipice of finally things ending. I remember one time saying maybe it's not time to pick out plane, to buy plane tickets yet, but it could be time to pick out ears and I want to believe, Maureen, that maybe it's ears time again.

Maureen: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Now you're talking, Dan, now you're talking. That's right.

Dan: They're about to open a whole fucking new transportation system at Disney World, Maureen, it's fucking gondolas that will fly you through the air to fucking Epcot or Hollywood studios.

Maureen: Seriously.

Dan: We could be in our ... Yeah they have a Disney Sky liner is opening up this weekend.

Maureen: What is it? What the fuck is that?

Dan: It's a gondola system that goes from a few hotels to two parks. It's like A Swiss ski gondola-

Maureen: We're working to do that.

Dan: ... But instead of going up the Alps, it drives to Epcot.

Maureen: We're going to do that. We're going to do that 100%. We're going to ride that all God damn day long.

Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we are. It could be happening, Maureen.

Amy Carter's S.: Hey, Hey.

Dan: Whoa.

Amy Carter's S.: What's up?

Dan: Amy Carter's shoe.

Amy Carter's S.: I'm late.

Dan: This has been a big week for you, huh?

Amy Carter's S.: It sure has, it sure has.

Dan: As Joe Biden's number one fan, it sure feels like this has been a big week for you.

Amy Carter's S.: You've been talking about my man. Don't mess with my man.

Dan: How have you been holding it together? Just feel like you'd be overheating by now.

Amy Carter's S.: Let me tell you something. My man's up to it, my man's got it going on. He knows what he's doing. Trust me, he's hanging low and slow, he's fine.

Dan: I thought we were just getting through it. Gross.

Amy Carter's S.: You know what I'm saying?

Dan: It's just so gross. It's just so gross.

Amy Carter's S.: Dan, I call it his third foot, foot number three.

Dan: Oh God.

Amy Carter's S.: And when you stand on three feet, you always have a solid footing. You know what I mean? Much stronger.

Dan: Oh no.

Amy Carter's S.: Bi-pod or a tripod. Tripod. A lot of people think when you say tripod that you're talking about something else, but I'm not, I'm talking about his balls.

Dan: God.

Amy Carter's S.: Now you may be asking yourself, why would the balls help in a situation like this? Well they just do, whatever you accuse him of doing something wrong, he grabs it and he spins it around like Wonder Woman and her amazing [inaudible 00:45:22], except balls, and hen he whacks the people that say things about him, and that's how he wins.

Dan: Oh God. So what you're saying is he is wielding a ball mace.

Amy Carter's S.: Yes, that's right, it's a ball mace.

Dan: Oh my God.

Amy Carter's S.: And you know who's going to get it first.

Dan: I need some bleach.

Amy Carter's S.: It's that little dick really, Rudy. He's on my list, he's talking shit about my man. Although when people say look into [inaudible] Joe Biden, I'm like, I'm kind of interested. I mean obviously I'm interested in that. I want to look deep into Joe Biden. I want to look deep into Joe Biden. Deep.

Dan: Oh God, please no.

Amy Carter's S.: I want to look into that.

Dan: God, Oh God.

Amy Carter's S.: Deep. Anyway, bye.

Maureen: She's gone. Not funny, I don't know why-

Dan: Oh God.

Maureen: ... It's not funny, Dan.

Dan: I feel like I'm gagging a little bit there at the end.

Maureen: She's going to come into play. Then while she was ... Because as she was covering it, I was checking to see if there's any information. But, there's a couple of things that are coming through. One is that Wilbur Ross was apparently sound asleep during Trump's United Nations speech-

Dan: Sure.

Maureen: ... So that's good. But, even as we record today, there should be some more information coming through. Oh, by the way, the thing that Trump Tweeted about Greta to throw her shade, he put up a video of her talking and said she seems like a very happy young girl looking forward to a bright and wonderful future. Well, Greta has taken that and put that as her new Twitter bio. Damn.

Dan: Maureen.

Maureen: She's so good.

Dan: Speaking of Wilbur Ross napping, Maureen. So here's the skinny on where to nap on our Disney trip.

Maureen: All right.

Dan: Carousel of progress, you get a solid 22 minute nap or so.

Maureen: Okay.

Dan: American experience in Epcot, it's a show that's narrated by a robotic Mark Twain and a robotic Benjamin Franklin. It is dark as shit. You can sleep for like 30 minutes in that thing.

Maureen: Okay.

Dan: It's good. We're going to get some good naps in, so we can just go. So we can go, go, go, go, go.

Maureen: Dan, are we going to record this, and then there's going to be more impeachment stuff that may come up later in the day.

Dan: Probably. Probably, but that's how it works, Maureen.

Maureen: All right.

Dan: If we waited to record an episode for the news to slow down, we would still be at episode zero.

Maureen: Don't you dare, Dan. Don't you dare.

Dan: Just saying.

Maureen: All right.

Dan: We would never have started. Imagine that.

Maureen: Yeah, it's a lot of news, a lot of news.

Dan: It is a lot of news, Maureen. It is a lot of news. It's too much news. I'll go so far as to say it's too much news. And that's Maureen. We haven't talked about, Says Who You yet today.

Maureen: Oh, okay.

Dan: Says Who You, our challenge to our listeners to put your screens down, to put the news away for even just 15 minutes a day and do something else. Do something that doesn't involve thinking about this hell scape that we live in. And here is my thing, Maureen. So I've been doing a bunch of different things including making yogurt.

Maureen: Lot of yogurt-

Dan: Ah, finally got to make yogurt again once I got back from LA. And let me tell you, I was happy my yogurt again today, but the biggest thing that I've been doing is every night, every night I had gotten into a very bad habit of looking at my phone until finally I just like toss my phone aside and fell asleep. And I have been, since we launched Says Who You, I have been very consciously looking at my phone for a little bit and then putting it down and reading. And I realized something just the other day, Maureen, which is I am not looking at my phone anymore before bed.

Maureen: Yes.

Dan: I'm just picking up that book. And I realized it because I grabbed my phone and I was like, I don't even know what I would be looking for here. And I realized the habit has started.

Maureen: Yes. You're moving into it.

Dan: The pattern is now there. Yeah, it was, it was an amazing realization because that ... All I'm doing is reaching for the book now.

Maureen: That's right. Yes. Dan, is it possible that we see the end? This must be where it all goes right, Dan. This is it. This is the turn. This is the light at the end of the tunnel. This is the moment. This is it. It's all going to be fine now.

Dan: I don't know if I'd go that far.

Maureen: That'd be great.

Dan: You might be over selling the situation right now.

Maureen: Nope, nope. It's all going to be perfect now.

Dan: Well, either way, Says Who is made possible by you through your support of our patron at Folks truly and truly your dollars, your $2, your $5, they make all of this happen, and we thank you so much for it.

Maureen: It's your fault.

Dan: That seems really unfair. Seems unfair to them.

Maureen: Well, it's-

Dan: You're telling them three seconds ago you were like everything's great.

Maureen: Right, well I'm just saying-

Dan: Maybe they made everything great.

Maureen: They did.

Dan: There you go. Speaking of people that make everything great, our theme music is performed by Ted Leo and our logo was designed by Darth. Those are great people doing great things.

Maureen: Well, one is a person and one is a red Panda.

Dan: Well, sure. I meant people in the broad sense like the way cartoon characters are people, and all animals are people and everything in animate object is person. That's what I meant.

Maureen: All right.

Dan: Contact us at Says Who podcast on Twitter. You can email it. Hey, that is Join the discussion on Facebook at /group/sayswhovians. Our Facebook group is moderated by Janice Dillard and Maureen Johnson, let me tell you that Facebook group has been blowing up since we launched Says Who You.

Maureen: It's pretty great.

Dan: People are helping each other out. People are cheering each other on. We had somebody who said that she spent her Says Who You time by going to a roller rink for the first time and posting a photo of herself roller skating.

Maureen: Yes.

Dan: Yeah. It's just amazing. It is looking at that community blossom and be amazing is fantastic. So you can go and join it at In the meantime, spread the word subscribe and leave stars and reviews on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. Super helpful and we love it. And you can see us in places that aren't just on your phone on October 8th which is soon. It's like two weeks away. I'm going to be at the American Writers Museum here in Chicago in conversation with Annalee Newitz, who's new book, The Future Of Another Timeline, is amazing and is out now, and you should buy it because it is a mindblower of a book. October 8th in Chicago, me and her. And at the end of the month, October 26th and 27th in Austin, Texas. You, Maureen Johnson are going to be at the Texas Book Festival.

Maureen: I'm going to be so many places, Dan. I'm going to be in Texas Book Festival, I'm going to be going to the Miami Book Festival. I'm going to be in a bunch of places. I'm going to be doing a bunch of things. Dan, my life is about to get busy. I'm going to be recording Says Who from all kinds of places.

Dan: It's exciting. I love a challenge. I love a good recording challenge.

Maureen: It's your favorite.

Dan: It's my very fave, my very fave thing.

Maureen: That's right.

Dan: It's not really my very fave thing.

Maureen: Well I'm getting the signal that it's almost time. Dan, right around this time each evening, because it's 7:00 PM Greek time, is when the pita goes on the grill. The smell goes from the barbecue.

Dan: God damn it, yeah. Oh, I'm hungry just listening to this.

Maureen: For example for lunch, we made a paella that was piled high with fresh shrimp and mussels, big bowls of Greek salad full of like fine-

Dan: This is unfair.

Maureen: ... Sun ripened tomatoes and fresh feta. He makes a whipped feta dip that's spicy that's hard to describe but so good.

Dan: I went through a long time of my life not liking feta cheese, but I have come to enjoy it again in moderation.

Maureen: Sure it is. Dan it's magical, but his fresh roasted eggplants is, I think we're having a, it's like a Greek lasagna. It's a [foreign language 00:55:52] that he's making for this evening with-

Dan: Last night I made like a chicken and pita thing and I made my own Tzatziki sauce with the yogurt I made, Maureen.

Maureen: There you go.

Dan: It's like I'm there with you. It's like I'm there with you. I'm going to go fill my bath tub, pour a lot of salt in it. And then it's like we're doing the same thing.

Maureen: And if you have blue apron, you two can get a bathtub full of salt. Just come on Dan, come on.

Dan: It's just that I just like talking about food and every time I'm just like, "Oh, it's great. We're talking about food." You're in fucking grease. It's amazing. I want to hear all about the-

Maureen: Oh great, about the food.

Dan: ... This is all just always a fucking set up. God damn it. And I fall for it every fucking time.

Maureen: It's because your love, for example, if you're in LA and it's honestly just you thinking about tacos in LA is all that it takes.

Dan: I eat so many tacos. On Thursday night, Maureen, a friend of mine was like, "Hey, do you want to go on a taco tour of downtown?" And we ate at three different taco places. It was a great night.

Maureen: I just saw a dolphin.

Dan: I had a little bit of ... What?

Maureen: I just saw a dolphin. I just saw it jump.

Dan: I'm a little jealous of your life right now.

Maureen: I am a little jealous of ... I just, I was like, what was that? Oh, dolphin. Dolphin.

Dan: From my basement in Chicago. I'm Dan Sinker.

Maureen: From the place where the water meets the sky, meets the mountains, meets the land. From the birth of myth and a land of story, a land of contrasts of greenery and rock and of the old and the new where old ancient ... Where ancient Europe and modern Europe intermingle. From a place somewhere between worlds-

Dan: Oh my God.

Maureen: ... Between past and present, from a spot where I'm on an Island but connected to a larger place where I can see Albania but Albania probably can't see me. From an internet connection that isn't great. From a spot right before dinner, but after lunch where I can smell dinner, but I can't eat it yet, where we haven't impeached, but we might on the precipice of activity on the spot where history repeats itself-

Dan: Oh my God.

Maureen: ...In a place where stories loop upon themselves, where if we do not learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it. From a place where-

Dan: I stopped listening a long time ago.

Maureen: ... Prorogation has been rendered illegal, but parliament has not yet come back into session while the world is heating and cooling on an endless cycle, where we can see the end of Says Who but we aren't there yet, because honestly, we just really don't [inaudible] go fucking wrong at any second, where Disneyland is there, but it's not.

Dan: It's Disney World, but yeah, it's fine. Just wrap it up, wrap it up.

Maureen: The feta is so ... It crumbles just at the gentlest touch of a fork, it goes ... you know what I'm saying?

Dan: That sounds amazing. Yeah, I know what you're saying. Time to wrap it up, Maureen.

Maureen: Dan, the olives are so small, tight, [inaudible 00:59:23]. The fresh oregano, the smell of sage on the wind, Dan, and you think, is it really so bad? Is it? Is it? Is it? I'm Maureen Johnson.

Dan: Just wrap it up. And this has been Says Who.

Maureen: Blue apron.

Dan: [inaudible 00:59:48].

Maureen: So nice here, honestly, you'd really love it. And so you know, it's not too hot. There's a breeze, a breeze that comes, because again, water's all the way around. I even hate myself.