Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could reopen Disney World, they didn’t stop to think if they should.
Welcome to day oné̷͕̓ ḩ̶͎̈́ú̶̞̩̎ndȑ̷͖̭ě̶̼d̸̘̅͝ á̶̡̀̚n̴̪̥͒d ṭ̸̜̐͘wěnty̸̙͂ oŕ s̶͉͙̚ơmĕ̸̺͉̀țhīņ̵̡̪͌g of quarantine! Dan and Maureen want you to know they are fine. They’re great. Because they’re so great, they’re going to talk about cool, great things, like Trump wearing a mask one time and plans for school reopening. Because it’s fine.
Well, it’s not *fine*, but…
Maureen has a new friend she wants Dan to meet. His name is Thicky Checks. It’s a normal thing. But Dan insists that they need to talk about the reopening of Disney World. And for that, they’re going to need the help of Jurassic Park expert Steven Ray Morris. It’s time to talk dinosaurs, risk assessment, hidden tunnels, Tomorrowland, and whether or not you should do it just because you can.
Hold on to your butts.
Dan:
This episode of Says Who is brought to you by you through your support of our Patreon at patreon.com/sayswho; our patreon where every single Sunday of this never ending quarantine, you get a bonus episode of Says Who if you are a supporter at a measly $5 a month or up. You get four, count them, four Sundays worth of material every Sunday. We're smart, Maureen. We're smart people.
Maureen:
I mean…
Dan:
Anyway, very smart people. Patreon.com/sayswho.
Maureen:
Look, I'm not going to tell you about books this week. A new person I invented last night is going to talk to you.
Dan:
Oh, no. Wait a second. Oh, no.
Maureen:
I don't know why.
Dan:
Oh, no.
Maureen:
Last night I decided I was going to communicate only as a person called Thickie Checks, who has his own dinosaur orchestra. Hey everybody?
Dan:
I'm sorry, did you say Thickie?
Maureen:
Hey everybody? Yeah, my name's Thickie Checks, and this is my dinosaur orchestra. Hey, everybody? We're here to play some songs for you. Anyway, Thickie Checks here. I'm going to play some songs. What would you like? Moonlight Sonata by Thickie Checks and his… I did this all last night. Look, I have a rich inner life, and sometimes I put that rich inner life onto pages and sell it at a store. And you can buy some of my thoughts.
Dan:
A real good value proposition there.
Maureen:
Hey, it's me, Thickie Checks. All right, everybody. One, two, three, let's play this. It's time to dance. Who's ready to dance? It was funnier last night, and by that I meant that Oscar looked concerned and sad. Anyway, would you like to buy my thoughts? They're available for sale, for some reason, and books are great. They will take you out of this reality, they will take you into a safe location and they will not give you COVID. I mean, I think-
Dan:
Now, that's a value proposition.
Maureen:
Yeah. I mean, as long as like you're actually… if you're getting like a library book or something, give it a little wipe down. Do not put it in the microwave. And Truly Devious is still on Kindle Unlimited. I don't like to tell you to buy stuff from Amazon, but for some reason, the paperback is on sale for $4 and ¢58, which is such a weird amount of money. But if you're like, “I'd like to buy a paperback for $4 and ¢58,” your time is now for whatever reason. Books. Hey, yeah, watch and buy some books. It's me, Thickie Checks. I don't know what's happening.
Dan:
Well, I would like you to buy some other things@merch.sayswhopodcast.com, where you can get my new favorite mug, one that says ‘do more, do less' right across it. I got mine in the mail the other day, Maureen, and I'm excited every morning. It's like a little note to myself.
Maureen:
Mine just came, and I am admiring it right now.
Dan:
It's a really nice mug. You can get one for yourself@merch.sayswhopodcast.com and it will come in the mail in a box for you. Oh, well, welcome. Welcome to the McDonald's. Can I take your order please?
Maureen:
Yeah, I'm going to need a party pack of fish nuggets.
Dan:
That's not… We don't…
Maureen:
An extra cheeseburger special.
Dan:
What is extra in that?
Maureen:
Like one of those cake-sized cheeseburgers that you can cut into slices.
Dan:
No one has ever done that.
Maureen:
A kind of fry cone and a kind of a bucket. I need a bucket of liquids.
Dan:
The last time you ordered this much food you were buying food for a college football team. Are you doing that again, because that didn't seem like a great idea?
Maureen:
Hey kid, can you just pour a bunch of dipping sauces directly into the glove compartment in the front seat here? Just pour them in there.
Dan:
Those are not waterproof.
Maureen:
What? The sauces aren't? Well, I would assume-
Dan:
No, the glove compartment. It'll leak out.
Maureen:
We don't care.
Dan:
But how far are you driving?
Maureen:
Oh, kid, we're always going to need you to come with us because we're going straight to Disney World where we're doing it. We're doing a straight shot, about 12 hours, so we want to get lots of food. I'll have a banana pi. And what's really good for long-term? Like, what holds up well? What's like the best?
Dan:
All of our food is actually remarkably well preserved, but why are you driving to Disney World?
Maureen:
It's open, so we're going to go.
Dan:
But that doesn't seem like reason enough if you ask me.
Maureen:
Oh, I don't want to go. I'm being forced to go.
Dan:
I think I'm good here. You could drive through, please.
Maureen:
Don't you want to serve your country?
Dan:
No.
Maureen:
I can actually get a presidential order to compel you to get in the car and go to the happiest place on earth.
Dan:
It doesn't seem like that would be very happy if you really think about it.
Maureen:
They told us that we could ride It's A Small World for three hours straight and they'll spray us with that kind of industrial spray each time we go by, so we're going to be very clean.
Dan:
I don't want to do this.
Maureen:
Just get in the car, kid.
Dan:
I don't want to try to.
Maureen:
I'm trying to help you.
Dan:
It's not helping.
Maureen:
We have machine guns.
Dan:
Oh boy.
Maureen:
Hey everybody. Welcome to Says Who, the podcast that isn't podcast.
Dan:
It's a coping strategy. I'm Dan Sinker.
Maureen:
And I'm Thickie Checks.
Dan:
What the fuck? What the fuck is this?
Maureen:
I don't know. I don't know. It seemed so funny last night.
Dan:
I don't know why though.
Maureen:
I'd like to introduce a little segment called Mental Healthing.
Dan:
We're just jumping right into that one. How are you? We've already answered that question, haven't we?
Maureen:
Dan, I definitely hit the wall this week, for sure.
Dan:
I feel like this is a real wall-hitter of a week.
Maureen:
I don't know what did it. I'm not sure what it was but something in my brain went, “Nope, Nope.” Partially-
Dan:
And then Thickie Checks showed up to protect you from it?
Maureen:
Hey, everybody? It's me, Thickie Checks. It's my dinosaur orchestra. Maybe. Also, as I've gotten more stressed, whatever this thing I have which is neurological has popped up every day. And the first day it really popped apart, it gives me the uncontrollable sensation that things are crawling on me or itching. And I was just itching so much that I didn't realize that I'd scratched myself all over. And I'd scratched so hard I sent my body, basically, into a histamine reaction from just itching so much.
Maureen:
Then I had to take a bunch of Benadryl and then sit in a cold tub of water for a while. Every night I have been feeling less and less well, and not in a big way. It's just annoying. It's unpleasant, but my body is like… It's like the mind and body is just like, “I'm done. Mm-mm (negative), it's too hot.” The heat gets me. The heat just really makes it bad. And I think the whole heat being inside for months, working on three books, Disney World is opening, like everything is happening and numbers are going up. And then all of a sudden, “Hey, it's me, Thickie Checks.”
Dan:
Not good. It's not good. I will say, I feel like I am witness to a lot of people hitting that wall this week, and I think I have also hit that wall this week. My wall is shaped very much in the shape of schools reopening because as the parent of two kids suddenly the lie that I have told myself since the start of this, which is like, “We're good in here and we never have to leave,” is starting to be questioned a little bit. For me, and I think for a lot of parents, and for a lot of folks that work in schools, of which we have many people listening that work in schools, this is a real stress moment of just like, “Fuck.”
Dan:
Because I got news for you, Maureen. It doesn't really feel like the people at the very top of this whole thing give one flying fuck about students or teachers in this mess.
Maureen:
I talked to one of my good friends yesterday. When I called her, she had just… I didn't know this, but she'd just about two minutes before gotten off the Zoom call with the school district. And I noticed something was she had that kind of sound in her voice which, “Hey, I just got off a Zoom call.” And I was, “Yeah, how's it going?” And she's like, “Well, we just heard the plan for reopening schools.” And I said, “What is that plan?” And she said, “There isn't. There isn't one, really?”
Maureen:
She has children who are six, eight… maybe like 6, 9 and 14 and so lots of different schools and situations and setups. And it seemed that they were like, “We're going to bring everybody back next month, kind of soon.” I think it was something like the 10th of August.
Dan:
Oh sure.
Maureen:
And so really soon their plan is to have like 10 people in a room. They'll have the kids, 10 in a room, but they'll have teachers and various people cycling in and out. And she's like, “And I just looked at Facebook and saw pictures of one of my kids' classmates and they're hanging out at giant mask-free parties with 15, 20, 25 people and they're all just…” She's like, “I don't know what I'm sending them into. I don't know what I'm going to be doing.”
Dan:
Yeah. Yeah, you've identified the stress there for sure.
Maureen:
Yeah. Do you think you'll keep your kids home?
Dan:
I think that if I think about it with my actual brain, yeah, I don't know what the hell plan I would need to see that would make me be like, “Okay, cool. Yeah, head back.” I don't know. That part, I'm not so sure about.
Maureen:
My mother retired fairly recently, but before that she was the head nurse and safety coordinator of the biggest technical high school in Pennsylvania. And she would have been the person responsible for working all of this out.
Dan:
Oh, my God.
Maureen:
And her job was already absolutely bat-shit insane. I mean, 12-hour no stop days, just really serious injuries and some people were very serious illnesses that required medical care all day long on a regular basis. But she also would have had to do all of the ordering of PPE, helping to design every single classroom, every single workstation, every single… Am I happy she's not working? Oh, I am dancing up and down that she's not working. But when I asked her this question, as the head nurse kind of person, it was like, “How do you think about this?”
Maureen:
I said, “If this was me in high school, what would you have done?” And she said, “Oh, I wouldn't have sent you back. There's no way.” Anyways, that was kind of her… And I know that that's easy because she doesn't have to make that decision and I don't have to make that decision. But I just wanted to know, as like a health person who did that kind of work, what was her take on it? And she was like, “There's just too many contact points.”
Dan:
Yeah. It makes me mad, Maureen. It makes me mad but, Maureen, we have some newsy stuff to talk about.
Maureen:
News?
Dan:
I know. I know.
Maureen:
First time I'm hearing of it.
Dan:
It's true. This week, for the first time since the start of the pandemic, the president of the United States wore a mask to have his photo taken. That's right, celebrate. Somehow this was a big deal. It reminded me of our reactions when our now five-year-old stop pissing the bed. We were like, “Oh, you did such a great job, so proud of you.”
Maureen:
Yeah. And immediately the right wing pundits jumped on it and it was like, “You're crushing it, sir. Crushing it,” it was very sad to watch.
Dan:
It was. But he had a hard week so maybe it was everyone just trying to cheer him up. He had the Supreme Court rule against him in a couple of different suits around access to his financial documents, which I wrote at length about back during the impeachment.fyi days. Remember those?
Maureen:
I'm sorry. It goes impeachment.fyi. Like that?
Dan:
Yes. Where there were two suits that went up to the Supreme Court. One was from the Manhattan district attorney and then one was from the house of representatives, and the decisions came down on both of them, both of them against the Trump administration's argument which was that a president should have absolute immunity as from subpoena or really for many prosecution whatsoever. That was not a great day for him. It does not mean that we are suddenly seeing the financial documents.
Dan:
The house, even though they found in the house's favor, they basically were like, “Y'all need to slow your roll.” Like, “Yes, but we don't think these actually are things you need to get access to right away or anything.” The Manhattan DA, they basically were like, “Yeah, you can totally subpoena for these.” And hey, Trump's people, you can still fight those subpoenas. You just can't say the president's absolutely immune. It's not like we're going to see any of these documents anytime soon but it was still a pretty big deal, especially for future presidents.
Dan:
If the Supreme court had decided that presidents have absolute immunity, then the oversight role of the legislative branch of government is done. Right? That is important. And also important, both Gorsuch and Kavanaugh broke against the president on this one.
Maureen:
This is interesting.
Dan:
Yeah. The decisions were 7-2. And when I first saw that I was like, “Well, I know who the two are.” And then I was like, "But what?”
Maureen:
Wait, what was it?
Dan:
I don't know.
Maureen:
Can you do that again? Come on.
Dan:
No, man. I can't. That's it, one time only. People that are listening, you can roll it back all you want but, nope, that's all you get. That's all you get Maureen, because we got to keep moving forward. We have a guest to talk to. We got to fit it all in. We got a lot to do. The Manhattan DA case is the Stormy Daniels campaign finance payoff investigation. And that came up again this week because Michael Cohen, who was in jail for that investigation for campaign finance violations, had been released from jail and put under house arrest because the federal that he was in had COVID. He was at home except that he was seen doing some outdoor dining around the corner from his house last week.
Maureen:
I mean, really damn. I mean, really?
Dan:
If only he had been wearing a fucking mask no one would have known. Instead he was just like droopy dogging it over there. One person who won't be going to prison is Roger Stone, one of Trump's OG goons who was found guilty and was supposed to be heading to prison, I believe, this week for lying to Congress about, among other things, his relationships with WikiLeaks and the Russian that hacked emails that WikiLeaks released back in 2016. But he's not heading to prison because on Friday night Trump commuted his sentence. He is a free man. He was on Sean Hannity last night.
Dan:
But the curious thing is that he was not pardoned, he had his sentence commuted because a pardon is like a full exoneration. It's like it's a wiping off the slate, whereas a commuting he just basically said, “You don't have to spend any jail time.” And the real fun thing is if you rabbit hole on why that would have happened, why not pardon instead of commuting, at least one theory is that because if he was pardoned then he wouldn't be able to invoke the fifth amendment against self incrimination. But by commuting he can, so he can't be compelled to testify against Trump in the future.
Maureen:
I mean, I should…
Dan:
Well, I'm going to cheer you up. Maureen, and I'm going to cheer you up.
Maureen:
All right.
Dan:
None of this downer news anymore because Disney World reopened.
Maureen:
God damn it, Dan. You tricked me. You motherfucker. Damn it, Dan.
Dan:
Disney reopened, Maureen.
Maureen:
You're bad.
Dan:
The happiest place on earth.
Maureen:
You're a mean man.
Dan:
They made a really fun ‘welcome back' video wherever all the mask cast members welcome people back to an empty park. It seems fun.
Maureen:
Man, that was some bleak shit.
Dan:
Yeah, we can't have it.
Maureen:
I mean, bleak.
Dan:
The only thing bleaker than the video that they released, which by the way got so roasted that they pulled it by the end of the day, the only thing bleaker to me was shots from inside the park which is like just almost empty. All the people working there are wearing face shields on top of their face masks, it just does not seem very magical. I love that God damn place and no part of it seems worth it.
Maureen:
It absolutely looks like outtakes from the show, Chernobyl, just the footage of two people getting on the It's A Small World Ride while the next boat down is genuinely being power hosed with disinfectant.
Dan:
Yeah. Have fun everyone. Meanwhile, Hong Kong Disney re-closed just like a day or two after Disney World in Florida reopened. It had been open less than a month and shut down because Hong Kong got 52 cases, and so they shut it all back down.
Maureen:
Well, that's a lot. I mean, if we had that many here then, clearly, we would.
Dan:
Yeah. Well, Florida on the same day had 15,000 cases.
Maureen:
That's more.
Dan:
Which is 10 times more than Hong Kong had for the entire time of COVID.
Maureen:
That's more, isn't it?
Dan:
Yeah. That doesn't seem great, which Maureen Johnson brings us to our guest today. Maureen, with this weekend's Disney World reopening happening right alongside Florida popping the highest daily Corona virus case totals the U.S. has ever seen-
Maureen:
I can't stop nervously laughing.
Dan:
Yeah, higher than New York at its peak. We decided that we needed to bring in an expert to help us understand what could possibly go wrong when you combine theme parks with unsafe conditions, someone that knows a lot about Jurassic Park. Maureen, joining us today is Steven Ray Morris, a podcast producer of shows like my favorite murder and the host and creator of Watch Jurassic, right?
Steven Ray Morris:
Hello.
Dan:
Steven Ray Morris.
Steven Ray Morris:
Hi.
Maureen:
Or, as he's better known, Steven. Steven.
Steven Ray Morris:
Exactly. Look, we spared no expense. Actually we spurred a lot of expense. Oh God, we don't have any money and we're opening it back up. This is not good.
Dan:
This is not good. To start out, as we ask everyone that joins us, how are you doing?
Steven Ray Morris:
Okay. Other than the sometimes deafening construction that might've interrupted us recording today, I'm doing pretty good. I mean, I feel very lucky that podcasting… It was actually funny because I think when the pandemic and people were staying home, obviously it was interrupting a lot of people's schedules and even podcasts listening was down a certain percentage. And then after about a month people were like, “Oh, well, I'm just going to listen to podcasts now all the time, whenever, at any hour of any day.”
Steven Ray Morris:
And so, yeah, I definitely don't feel like I have the free time to learn new things, although I did just buy a yoyo so maybe I'll become a world competitive yoyo person in the next couple of months as we continue to stay inside. Especially here in Los Angeles where as of this recording, it was… Oh, things were open for like a few weeks and then they were like, “Oh, wait, that was a bad idea and now we're going to close everything back up again.”
Maureen:
Yeah. You had malls and movie theaters open.
Steven Ray Morris:
I can't imagine. It's funny. I feel like I went out a little bit more often during the beginning of the pandemic in the sense of like, “I just need to go to Target,” and follow all the proceedings. But I truly have not left the house in a normal way in such a long time so I just hear stories. I hear stories of people at bars and things like that. I just can't imagine the movie theaters were open, but, yeah. I mean, I can't tell what's going on in the real world anymore.
Maureen:
Yeah, I was shocked, but-
Steven Ray Morris:
It's pretty crazy.
Dan:
Well, it brings us to actually the topic at hand, which is the reopening of Disney World. It should have also been the reopening of Disneyland which was originally slated to open up, I think, in three days from now. And just before the start of July, Disney announced that they would not be reopening Disneyland because Gavin Newsome had pumped the brakes on requirements for theme parks. And, at least for me, there was that moment of like, “Well, clearly, they're also not going to open Disney World.”
Steven Ray Morris:
Four is like, “Nope.”
Dan:
But, the joke's on me.
Steven Ray Morris:
Well, it's funny actually because my first job I ever had growing up was Disneyland, so I can't imagine being… I mean, at the time really, truly, the idea that applying to a job when you had no job. But when I was 17 applying to Disneyland, what was my experience? Volunteering at a nature center by making beads with kids. I felt like we were paid pretty well at the time but still, I mean, definitely like low on the totem pole so far that I definitely don't think our safety was being considered at all. You know? I can't imagine what people who are working at theme parks, or least Disney World, must feel.
Dan:
What was your job?
Steven Ray Morris:
I worked at Pizza Port, so maybe we would have been treated a little bit better as far as like safety conditions and things like that because I was working at a restaurant. But yeah, I mean, it's just… I mean, even in restaurants at Disneyland, they're like packed to the gills and it's like everyone has like four screaming kids and… I mean, I guess we wore gloves so some-
Maureen:
Was it table service or a counter?
Steven Ray Morris:
No, this was more buffet so, frankly, I probably would have been a little bit safer. Oh, not buffet, but like… What is it called when you just come up and you just grab a thing, but it's not like-
Dan:
I believe in Disney parlance it's quick service.
Steven Ray Morris:
Yes. Yes. Yeah, so I would either make a four ton salad and then assemble a tiny one for people or give them a slice of pizza or some nice spaghetti. But, yeah. I mean, I guess I would be a little bit safer because I'd be behind all that glass; so yeah, maybe I would have been all right. But I can't imagine for anybody who's managing the lines, anything like that. The cheer up person's probably at a high risk. Yeah.
Maureen:
Cheer up?
Steven Ray Morris:
The churro.
Maureen:
Oh, churro.
Steven Ray Morris:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Maureen:
Sorry. I was like, “Is there a cheer up person?” Like, “Cheer up, motherfucker, you're fine. You're in Disneyworld.”
Steven Ray Morris:
They have to for morale, you know?
Maureen:
Yeah, they have to be happy.
Steven Ray Morris:
Right now the cheer up person is behind a mask and a face shield. “Cheer up, [crosstalk 00:28:16] fine.”
Maureen:
“[crosstalk 00:28:17], everything's fine.” Yeah. I don't know if you, Steven, you watched the video.
Steven Ray Morris:
Is this one of the videos where it's like the edit of the…? Because there was one where there was the shining-
Dan:
No. Yeah, there's the official Disney welcome home video.
Steven Ray Morris:
Yes.
Maureen:
Yeah. The welcome home video is definitely… that's where we see the tracings of Jurassic Park which is, “Welcome,” and just people throwing out their arms as they're wearing masks and face shields. And you see the fun kind of decontamination centers and the people spraying down the It's A Small World boat with kind of Chernobyl spray.
Steven Ray Morris:
Just [inaudible 00:29:00]. They should honestly just get a flame thrower and just lightly char everything. And I would honestly feel safer if everything was slightly charred a little bit.
Dan:
Well, the parallels to Jurassic Park are super clear here, right? And I actually re-watched the original this weekend. I was planning on watching more, but we've had a number of internet issues this weekend. And there is a moment in the movie where everything has gone entirely wrong. John Hammond, the creator, is trying to say that, “Well the next time we open… There are all these mistakes, but the next time we won't make them.” And this feels a lot like that.
Steven Ray Morris:
Yeah. Oh, I mean, and it's interesting too because… I mean, there was a meme going around and as a Jurassic Park expert I have to address it. They said Jurassic reopened five times and you think people are going to listen now. And I understand the joke and I'm going to ruin the joke, but technically Jurassic World was the only Jurassic Park that officially opened. The original Jurassic Park, they never officially opened. But that's not the point because they would have anyway. John Hammond, again like you said, he would have opened it if he could.
Steven Ray Morris:
But what's more interesting to me in some sense as well, and going along these same lines, literally Hammond has so much money he's like, “I'm going to pay these experts to fly out this weekend because I need to get the park approved so that it goes back on schedule.” And he schedules them to come back in the middle of a hurricane. They don't even see any dinosaurs on the tour before they have to cancel. It just feels like it's bad all around.
Maureen:
I've only ever seen the first one and I saw it fairly recently, for the first time.
Steven Ray Morris:
Oh, I was going to say we… Oh, go ahead.
Maureen:
Within the last year is when I saw the first Jurassic.
Steven Ray Morris:
What?
Maureen:
Yeah.
Steven Ray Morris:
And would you have gone? I mean, after everything.
Maureen:
Oh, no. No, no, no. I am extremely risk averse. No. You see, because I grew up in the Philadelphia New Jersey area where theme parks parked straight up did kill you and we had a lot of fatalities at the parks.
Steven Ray Morris:
Action Park, right? Is that the name of the one?
Maureen:
There was Action Park. It was one that was in Vernon. And I was going through this in my mind. I don't think I went to the Vernon one, but it turns out there was an outpost sort of out in the Poconos. And I believe I went to the one on the Poconos.
Steven Ray Morris:
They franchised.
Maureen:
Yeah, they franchised it. And then there was also Six Flags Great Adventure in New Jersey where a week before we went as a school trip the haunted house burned down and something between set seven and 10 people died.
Steven Ray Morris:
Whoa, I've not heard of this.
Maureen:
Oh yeah, it burned down and people died and brides constantly broke down. Like I had our neighbors down the street, they were on like a rollercoaster that was upside down when it stalled and they had to get like a cherry picker in and people had to climb down off of the… yeah.
Steven Ray Morris:
Oh. I would wait till they just can make the ride finish. The idea of having to be hanging upside down to unstrap your seat, like your belt while you're hanging upside down, that to me is the most terrifying thing I could imagine.
Maureen:
Yeah. And I don't know, they braced them somehow and got them down. But I absolutely-
Steven Ray Morris:
Did they put some mattresses out?
Maureen:
I was like, “Oh, yeah, theme parks will kill your ass.” Like, they will; that you will die there. You will die in multiple ways. You can go on the wave pool and be electrocuted. You will drop off the Tarzan slide and have a heart attack. You will have a heart attack on that drop. The haunted house will burn down. You will fly off the completely concrete [hop on 00:33:15] slide and die. That's just how things were in Philadelphia, New Jersey so when people wonder I'm like, “Fine, I'm not going. I'm not fucking going back. Theme parks are out to kill you.”
Steven Ray Morris:
Yeah. I mean-
Dan:
That's why you never saw Jurassic Park, because you've lived it.
Steven Ray Morris:
Yeah, you lived it.
Maureen:
Kind of. And I'm like, “Yeah, why would anyone go?”
Steven Ray Morris:
I mean, thankfully, nothing happened when I worked at Disneyland. But the year that I worked at Disneyland was when Space Mountain was closed down for a year because they were rebuilding it, so maybe I just got lucky.
Maureen:
Well, you see before this, I believed in the Disney Company's commitment to safety.
Steven Ray Morris:
Yeah. You believe like we all believed.
Dan:
Well, that's one of the things to me. It's Universal Florida reopened like a month ago.
Steven Ray Morris:
Wow.
Dan:
And home to the Jurassic Park land, which feels very ironic. But they opened like a month ago to not a lot of fanfare. Now, granted, Florida's COVID numbers we're not quite as worrisome a month ago as they are now. But I feel like they've managed to sort of walk through the raindrops of people being like, “What the fuck are you doing?” And what do you think it is about Disney in particular that's drawing so much ire?
Steven Ray Morris:
I mean, I think that it's making a video about it. Because I actually have a Universal Studios pass. I've been an annual pass holder for the last three years now or two years. And yeah, I don't think Universal… I mean, I'm getting the updates and I haven't gotten any updates about when they're going to reopen. And sort of last year, at the Jurassic world, the Jurassic Park ride at Universal Studios became the Jurassic world ride. And unlike when the guardians of the galaxy opened at California Adventure, Universal doesn't really make a meal.
Steven Ray Morris:
The Jurassic World ride, it's sort of soft opened. And so it was one of those things where if you were plugged into the theme park world we were there like, “Oh, they're secretly letting on people to the Jurassic world ride today if you go or whatever,” so I'd run over because I lived pretty close. This is just a brag to say that I got to go to the ride premiere thing where Chris Pratt and Bryce Dallas Howard just rode the ride once and then it's like, “Yeah, hooray, we're open now,” even though they had already been open.
Steven Ray Morris:
But I think it's the hubris. And, again, it's very much in the same vein of Jurassic Park of like, “Here's this grand opening. We're coming back. We got it all figured out.” I think you're right. I think if Disney had just sort of slowly opened, maybe if 100 guests a day or something, all the memes wouldn't be made and stuff like that. I think it's truly, truly this idea that it's like we have this. I mean, it's like our country. It's just like, “We don't need to worry about this. It's fine.” And it's like, “Yeah, but it's not fine.” “No, it's fine,” and then just slowly pushing your face away, you know?
Maureen:
Now, I don't know that people necessarily lead the Universal lifestyle, but there are absolutely people that lead the Disney lifestyle.
Steven Ray Morris:
Yeah.
Maureen:
They're 100% in, it's part of their identity.
Steven Ray Morris:
Yeah. I mean for awhile, before Disney Plus, my girlfriend and I would call her daughter like a… she's like a minions kid, which it makes her kind of a hipster amongst probably all the children on the playground when you're into Illumination Entertainment, trolls and stuff, as opposed to all the kind of Disney classics. But yeah, I think there's not the same amount of hardcore loyalty. I think the moment Universal was closing people were just like, “Cool. Yeah. I mean, I guess I'll ride the Simpsons ride when it opens up again, but I normally don't even go when I go anyway.”
Steven Ray Morris:
Yeah, you're right Maureen. There's nobody who's like as dedicated. I would say I'm the most dedicated. And I've gone to Universal Studios enough that… Once it's safe to go back I'll go back, but it's not a big deal.
Dan:
Yeah. The slogan is like, “Universal, who gives a shit?” But, Disney, I have actual people I know and I'm associated with, say on Facebook, that they have head to toe… they can dress their entire body and their entire house in Disney gear. They live the Disney lifestyle 24/7, 365.
Steven Ray Morris:
I used to be about that life growing up in Anaheim. I mean, I think that's what's so interesting, especially out in LA. It's that a lot of friends that I have, they grew up with kind of Disney being sort of a mystique. You grew up on the East coast, maybe you'd go once a year down to Florida. But so when you moved to LA you're like, “Wait, Disneyland is less than an hour away. I'm going to get a pass. I'm going to be about that life.” Whereas for me I was like, “I've been in this game. I was going to Disneyland every week when I was 16 after class or whatever.”
Steven Ray Morris:
I understand that like, yeah, because we'd either go like after school. Even before I worked there, I had a pass and we would go after school. We'd go, we'd also play a game of like you'd go on a Saturday morning and you would stay as long as you could before the lines got too long. You know, if you wanted to have lunch, you wouldn't pay for lunch in the park. You'd go out and everything. I mean, I feel like it's a lot harder to get in and out of the park now because I think they want you to stay and pay that extra $200 for lunch and everything like that.
Steven Ray Morris:
But yeah, I feel like it's a thing that feels so magical and mystical that if it's accessible to you, you just want to gorge on it all the time. I think if it's especially new for you. I know a lot of people who moved to L.A. and they got a Disney pass and they're driving down to Anaheim every weekend.
Dan:
I would do that.
Maureen:
I would that.
Dan:
I would 100% do that. Now I'm very curious. You grew up going to Disneyland after school and then at some point you became one of the world renowned experts in the Jurassic Park films. What brought you from one thing to the other?
Steven Ray Morris:
Yeah. I mean, well, I've always loved Jurassic Park and I bet it's funny. I do realize that theme parks are kind of in my DNA.
Dan:
Yeah, there's a constant there.
Steven Ray Morris:
Yeah. Well and also, I mean, there's a lot of bad zoos out there. I'm not going to jump on my soapbox and why the San Diego zoo is great and there shouldn't be zoos anyway, but that's the world we live in. Anyway, so I don't know. There's something magical about the idea of a theme park and kind of, again, stepping out of your reality for a bit. I mean, I've always loved dinosaurs and so the idea that… And I think, to be fair to Jurassic park and even Jurassic world, the way that the dinosaurs live looks pretty humane. I mean, we're not full free Willy here.
Steven Ray Morris:
I think people try and say that the Jurassic Park movies are partially like some satire or like they're partially satire, but I don't really feel like that's correct. I feel like if you wanted to make Jurassic Park a satire or like sort of more kind of critiquing the notion of theme parks and zoos, I think you would have scenes where like the raptors are just in a cage where they're just slipping around in their own shit and stuff and like they're sad looking. You don't get the impression that if you're a dinosaur at Jurassic Park that it's bad. I don't. Everything feels like pretty good for them.
Steven Ray Morris:
I feel like as far as like critiquing the notion of dress work, I think the movies themselves don't really do it. I mean, they're just critiquing the hubris of man but they're not really like… I mean, you know? What was that movie that was shot fully in Disney World? Something of tomorrow. And it was like a dystopian sci-fi movie. Did either of you ever watch that?
Dan:
No.
Steven Ray Morris:
Yeah. There was a guy who spent like four years shooting a dystopian sci-fi movie in Disney World. I can't remember the-
Dan:
Wow. Guerrilla style.
Steven Ray Morris:
Yes, guerrilla style; fully guerrilla style with actors and everything and… My phone is in the other room. But yeah, it was called World of Tomorrow or something of tomorrow. But yeah, that was like a dystopian sci-fi movie sort of critiquing the sort of escapism and things like that of theme parks. But Jurassic world is a notion. I feel like that question that I asked you, Maureen, like would you…? And, Dan, the same question for you. It's like, would you go to Jurassic park? I feel like people who watched Jurassic Park are like, “Hell, yeah. I'll be eaten by a di…”
Steven Ray Morris:
It's like cat people. It's like, “Look, if I die, a cat's going to eat my face. That's fine.” I think that idea of touching on Disney people, Maureen, it's like Disney people are like, “I will risk it all for the thing that I love.”
Dan:
But so, to me, I like Disney World a lot. It is not worth it to risk it all to have a doll whip that I eek my face shield up to smash it into and then eek it back down when I'm done. Like yeah, I get the idea of going and checking out a fucking dinosaur, right?
Steven Ray Morris:
Yeah, true.
Dan:
Because that's amazing. But this idea of this weird, hollow shell of a Disney where everyone is masked and like… I think it was a New York Times reporter I just saw today that was like, “It felt like being in a hospital.” And it's like, “Why is that fun?”
Steven Ray Morris:
Yeah, you're not getting the experience.
Dan:
I don't get why that's fun. Like what part of that is somebody being like, “You know what? That sounds awesome, and I'll totally risk it all for that.”
Steven Ray Morris:
Well, I wonder if it's like kind of concert people where it's like, to me, I used to go to a lot more concerts and things like that. The only concerts I went to last year is I saw Carly Rae Jepsen twice and Lizzo, but it's that thing of like expensive tickets, long lines, crowds, everything. And every time I go to a concert, I enjoy it. But I also like, “Why am I putting up with all these inconveniences.” And yeah, maybe Disney people are just like, “All these inconveniences are worth it.” But I think there's definitely a line and I think that line truly is like would you join a cult or not.
Steven Ray Morris:
Like, would you go down to Guyana and live at Jonestown? I feel like that's the same kind of line. And I think, the three of us, we're not that. Dedicated is the word I would use. It's that thing of like, is this thing worth? Are you the kind of person that waited at 3:00 AM at Best Buy for like a PS2 in high school for Black Friday? Were you that dedicated? I think there's just that kind of degree of a type of person. And if you weren't willing to do that, you'd probably also look at this and be like, “Why would anyone go to Disney World right now when I can't even enjoy it the way that I normally do?”
Dan:
Do you feel like knowing a lot about the Jurassic Park movies prepared you for this new world that we now live in?
Steven Ray Morris:
Well, I think if anything I think that's the thing with the joke of the Jurassic park reopening. As much as I think Jurassic Park is kind of soft on satire about the notion of theme parks, I think Jurassic Park isn't soft in the notion that history repeats itself, that people are pretty stupid when it comes to things that they like. You just want the thing. Again, like I said before, it's like I know bringing dinosaurs back would be a bad idea but I just want it, and there's no explanation for it really.
Steven Ray Morris:
But, I mean, it's obviously all conceptual, but yeah. And I think also the threshold for what's realistic as far as like when people talk about movies in relation to real life, I feel like Growing Up At Jurassic Park is a movie where if you're paying attention this sort of ideas of like what is realistic or not is kind of flipped on its head. Because people are like, “Oh,” especially in these newer movies where there was a plot point of the idea that people would turn the dinosaurs into weapons or like militarize them and stuff.
Steven Ray Morris:
But it's like, yeah, but we've been militarizing animals for… I mean, technically, for hundreds if not thousands of years with like horses and things like that, but even more recently with dogs and in Iraq and Afghanistan and stuff. And dolphins were used to sniff out bombs. It's like the notions of like what's sci-fi or what's realistic is for me, as far as Jurassic Part goes, very flipped on its head where the most sci-fi part about Jurassic Park is that the dinosaurs are back. But everything else is pretty much real world, realistic. Everything makes sense.
Steven Ray Morris:
I think it was The Dollop I was listening to and there was a whole episode about how they were trading cats to be spies, or the Russians were training cats to be spies or something. It's like, “Yeah, the idea that a dinosaur could be used to sniff out enemies in a war scenario is probably the most realistic thing about these new Jurassic world movies. I mean, sure, maybe the raptor's not going to wield the gun and be like, “Stick ‘me up,” but everything other than that is-
Dan:
That's a movie I'd like to see.
Maureen:
Yeah, I would. I'm back in. I'm back in. I can see a dinosaur just go, “Stick ‘me up.” I'm like, “Worth it,” whatever happens to me honestly.
Dan:
Yeah, Jurassic World Three, they breed talking DNA into.
Maureen:
It's Jurassic world with West-World so, “Stick ‘em up.”
Steven Ray Morris:
Yes, exactly. Well, I mean, before these Jurassic World movies there was a plan to bring the Jurassic Park Four that was going to happen after the disaster that was Jurassic Park Three. It was going to involve half human half dinosaurs. And it was going to be like a Ninja turtle situation, and one of them was going to be like smoking a cigar, which is like… It's very ‘90s of like when you have like a creature, like a person in a costume, smoking a cigar. It's like you know you're in for a good time.
Dan:
Was it an afterschool cartoon? I definitely can picture the toys that spun out of it, but it was like a really ripped shark with-
Steven Ray Morris:
Oh, yeah, street sharks.
Dan:
There you go. That was exactly what was in my head when you said a dinosaur smoking a cigar. It's just a really ripped dino with [inaudible 00:49:24] arms.
Maureen:
Hold on. I was taking a sip of water when you just said street sharks and I was not ready, and I should know not to drink water. Steve, but you have two other areas that I feel like may inform this whole Disney thing. The first is, say, the murder RiNo community who are very much about staying, you know don't get murdered. Do you think there's any overlap with don't go to Disney and catch COVID? Do you think that there's any greater cognizance of threat level?
Steven Ray Morris:
I feel like maybe the Disney murder RiNos are probably the most extroverted of like all the murder RiNos because, yeah, I feel like the notion of staying in it's like not even a question. You know? And that's the thing I think about a lot. And as far as like the reactions and people going back out into the world, I feel like on Twitter maybe it seems like a bubble to me sometimes because it's like everyone, I know. It's like, yeah, of course. We're going to be closed for years and we're not going back outside and we're being responsible and we're wearing masks.
Steven Ray Morris:
And then, like people have said, they go outside and they see a bar packed with people and it's like clearly the majority just don't care. But I feel like murder RiNos, everyone I know in that community, is very conscious. And it's just one more reason not to leave the house. You don't need to convince them, you know?
Maureen:
Right. That's what I was thinking, just another reason where you're like, “You know what? You're safer inside?” It just feels like a good… And the second thing is you're a cat expert. You host the Purrcast. And I didn't realize until we talked to Akilah Hughes that Disney World is just full of cats, and that after a certain hour it's just overrun with cats.
Steven Ray Morris:
Well, yeah. I'm I know for sure Disneyland actually… I know that there's an Instagram, maybe it's for both. I'm not sure. Excuse me. I feel very sad that when I worked at Disneyland I did not see the cats that often. I think maybe because I had early shifts or just like afternoon shifts. But also like Disneyland for at least… I don't know how to say Disney World but Disneyland, it's very much like a castle where you have the outside of the park and then you have essentially what is a moat. But instead of water, it's called the in-between.
Steven Ray Morris:
It's where all the cast members get ready, they get dressed. There's a restaurant, there's like their costume changes and everything. And then you have the inside of the park and the idea is that you're not supposed to break the illusion between. The illusion is supposed to be sealed. And I think where I worked, because I was in Tomorrow Land, I was more of like in an astroma or like alien ship the whole time, like literally underground tunnels at Disneyland, like the dripping pipes and everything. Like, it just was very much.
Steven Ray Morris:
I was just like, “I'm Ripley but I work at Disneyland.” I feel like the people who worked in The Matter Horn and like It's A Small World and that area of the park and the frontier, they got to see the cats more often. But it's very much a thing because, ironically, it's like they wanted to get rid of all the mice. The only mouse was Mickey. All the other mice had to go. But yeah, I'm very sad that I never saw it when I was there, but it's very much a real thing. And the feral cat colonies and stuff at Disneyland, at least at Disneyland, were very much a thing.
Maureen:
Disney World, apparently, just absolutely bazillions of cats. And do you think the cats enjoyed it a lot? How do you think they were doing when the people weren't coming?
Steven Ray Morris:
Look, a mouse is tasty but I'm sure like a straight corn dog on the floor, you know? I'm sure they're sad.
Maureen:
But they can hang out during the day. They could sun themselves everywhere, they could really cut loose.
Dan:
How much cat shit do you think they will clean out the tea cups after all of this?
Steven Ray Morris:
It's like Chernobyl. It's like the animals are coming back with the people gone, you know? It's probably a sight to behold and then some influencer's going to take some hot pics when they sneak in amongst all the ruins.
Maureen:
I used to work at a place that the New York Times did an article about. And the headline was ‘Is This The Worst Company In America?' And it was a small publishing firm. And near just a couple of snippets of things that would happen they didn't pay the heat, and so everyone had to sit at their desks with hat and gloves like a Christmas carol. And it would snow inside because the windows were open. One day they bought a cheap IKEA kitchen and didn't have it installed properly, and it fell on my friend.
Maureen:
And she was trying to like get a mug out and the whole kitchen fell on her and we had to help. But she was holding it up and then we all had to run over and help hold up the kitchen. But they had a really sketchy fifth floor office that was really gross and dank and had a lot of mice. And so instead of getting the problem taken care of, they just grabbed two cats and had two cats live in this dank indoor office. And I was like, “This is not good for these cats.” But because there were so many mice. And I would come into my job in the morning and there'd be litter all over my seat and little weird footprints all over my desk. Now, that's not a good environment for cats.
Steven Ray Morris:
Yeah. Well, even though even the cats are overworked.
Maureen:
The cats were definitely overworked.
Steven Ray Morris:
I mean, you talked about there's too many mice.
Maureen:
It's too many mice but I feel like there, in Disney World, there are lots of nice places to sun, there's lots of mice and tasty bugs to eat and places to have your kittens and fun things to chase and play. I mean, I just think of them having a great time with nobody there.
Steven Ray Morris:
Yeah, my only hope is that. Because I know people that work for animal shelters and so even during this you still have to have somebody go and take care of all the animals. You can't bring them all home with you, although some have tried. But so, I imagine if there is somebody checking in on the cats, at least, I think that's probably a good situation for them.
Dan:
On that note, Steven Ray Morris, thank you-
Steven Ray Morris:
Thank you so much.
Dan:
-for bringing your areas of expertise to bear on this with us.
Steven Ray Morris:
Yeah, this was so much fun.
Maureen:
And If you don't mind us paraphrasing, stay sexy and don't go to Disney World.
Steven Ray Morris:
Yes, exactly. I mean, I feel like here's what they do. Disneyland wants to make their money. They could go the Jurassic park route. I mean, in the movie Genero, the slimy lawyer, he's like $10,000 a day, $20,000 a day and people will pay it. And so what you do is you maybe get like four or five people, four or five rich people. And if Disney World still wants to make their money, it's almost like a private tour where you just have the whole theme park to yourself; but no employees, because we don't want to put them at risk.
Maureen:
And you knock off a few billionaires.
Steven Ray Morris:
Yes, exactly.
Dan:
It's two birds, one stone.
Steven Ray Morris:
Well, it's a thing. Yeah, you purposely put one person with COVID in there and then it's like a game of clue but with the disease.
Dan:
It's the world's most expensive guillotine.
Steven Ray Morris:
Yeah.
Maureen:
Yeah. You're hunting the most dangerous and magical game. And if you survive, Mickey Mouse hunts the last person and kills them.
Steven Ray Morris:
Hunger Games in Disney World.
Maureen:
Oh. Now I'm interested. Dan, I know we're not in the prediction game.
Dan:
Yeah.
Maureen:
But do you think they're going to close it down again? We were guessing whether or not it was going to open, and it has opened.
Dan:
Yeah. I don't know. There is no logical explanation for why it opened, so I don't know how… okay, yes. I will say yes. And here is how.
Maureen:
It's going to close again is what you're saying?
Dan:
Yeah.
Maureen:
Okay.
Dan:
We are in a very weird and slightly more prolonged interim period right now where our COVID numbers are getting really just scary, scary high in many places across the country. But the death rates have not started to spike up to match it, and so it feels like we are in this little moment before the death rates really start getting there. And it's clear from data in Texas and in Arizona and in Florida as well, all the hospitals are starting to hit capacity. And California's lagging in that, but it's even heading there as well. And we've seen this fucking movie before, right? We know where it's going. And I do think if end up with a mountain of deaths again, I can't see them keeping it open. That's my prediction. What's yours?
Maureen:
Hey everybody. It's me, Thickie Checks.
Dan:
Oh no, Thickie Checks came back.
Maureen:
Yeah, me. Hi. How are you doing?
Dan:
Good. Are you… huh?
Maureen:
I'm flying Disney World next week.
Dan:
Oh, are you?
Maureen:
It's me and my dinosaur orchestra. He's got a dinosaur orchestra.
Dan:
I don't quite understand that but, all right, I'll go for it. I'll go with it.
Maureen:
I'm actively dissociating but in a healthy way, in a healthy way.
Dan:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Maureen:
And he's got a dinosaur orchestra.
Dan:
Is he a dinosaur?
Maureen:
No.
Dan:
Okay.
Maureen:
No, but he has recruited a dinosaur.
Dan:
How did he get the… How though? Is he a time traveler or is there a Jurassic Park thing happening?
Maureen:
Neither.
Dan:
Okay.
Maureen:
It was a coincidence. He didn't even set up to do it.
Dan:
Says Who is made possible by you through your support of our patreon at patreon.com/sayswho. Oh boy.
Maureen:
We really want to thank our patreon here, Thickie Checks, and dinosaur orchestra. Thanks a lot for your support. It means a lot to us.
Dan:
Every Sunday, the Patreon at patreon.com/sayswho is where you can get a special quarantine Sunday edition of Says Who if you are a $5 or up supporter on Patreon.
Maureen:
Now we're going to play our famous 16 hour version of Turkey and the Straw. One, two, three.
Dan:
Boy. Our theme music is performed by [inaudible 01:00:43].
Maureen:
Is provided by Thickie Checks and his dinosaur orchestra.
Dan:
Our logo was designed by Darth.
Maureen:
It's not even funny.
Dan:
It's not.
Maureen:
No.
Dan:
You can contact us at Says Who podcast on Twitter. You can email at hey, that is H-E-Y, @sayswhopodcast.com. And you can join the community and discussion on @facebook/groups/sayswhovians. Our Facebook group is moderated by Janice Dillard. And yet another shout out for just how supportive and wonderful that community is. I think I mentioned earlier in this episode that there are a lot of people that work in schools or attend schools that listen to the show. And I know that because that has been a major topic of discussion over on the Facebook group all this week.
Dan:
And we are thinking about all of you as these plans unfold and you are faced with near impossible choices that you will have to make. And the Facebook group is a good place to get a little bit of peer support in all of that. Again @facebook/groups/sayswhovians. In the meantime, you can spread the word, subscribe, and please leave stars and reviews on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. We are still getting a lot of reviews that describe the podcast as sticky, and I can't say I hate that. You can join us next Wednesday, July 22nd, for our next sticky episode. Maureen, from my basement in Chicago, I am Dan Sinker.
Maureen:
Hey everybody. Thanks a lot for joining us this week. It's been a real pleasure to have you. It's me, Thickie Checks. I will not do this again next week.
Dan:
With the whole thing, the whole podcast? That's going to be awkward.
Maureen:
I just feel like if I got out for a little bit then things might be different.
Dan:
I get it, your name. Say your name.
Maureen:
Just saying it could be a big helps to-
Dan:
Your name. [inaudible 01:02:50].
Maureen:
Wait, who are you?
Dan:
I was you.
Maureen:
No, but wait.
Dan:
This has been Says Who.
Maureen:
Dan, you can't do that.
Dan:
What?
Maureen:
You can't just pretend to be me.
Dan:
It was you. It wasn't me. You're disassociating. Remember?
Maureen:
Oh God damn it, Dan.