On a very special episode of Says Who, a new challenger approaches... in the competition for Maureen's heart.
Oh hello, SaysWhovia! You caught us at home! How fortunate. It’s been… 50 days? Something like that. And here we are.
Dan and Maureen are doing pretty well. There is the usual talk of bleach and masks. They discuss the need to keep busy and the feeling of not getting anything done. After all, one must count one’s beans and clean the doorknobs.
But! There are other things going on! More traditional Says Who fare! Michael Cohen is back in the news. He is writing a book, and Dan and Maureen want in! And there is another player on the stage. Dan wants to tell Maureen all about him. A new boyfriend, perhaps?
Anyway, come on in, SaysWhovia. We’ll wipe you down with Lysol wipes. Again.
Dan:
This episode of Says Who is brought to you by you through your support of our Patreon at patreon.com/sayswho, our Patreon where if you are backing at the town watch level or above, that is just $5 a month or more, you get quarantine Sunday content every Sunday, you get a bonus episode of Says Who were Maureen and I talk about life under quarantine and many other things this weekend most likely. We will play around of friends or dark friends. That is Sundays on our Patreon at patreon.com/sayswho.
Maureen:
I'm so excited for a ... Hey Dex, Dex, Dex, I just walked you, it's time to settle. Oh no. No.
Dan:
Oh no.
Maureen:
Dex. No. Hey listen, are you indoors with your dog who you just run around for an hour and play tug with and did all the things and now you're having a little sit down? She's not on you a little bit, but you're fine? Why don't read a book? It's never been a better time for books. Books, books, books, books, books, books, books, books.
Maureen:
Let me just tell you about books. Also, I just want to shout out an independent bookstore I love, it's called book moon. You can go there at bookmoonbooks.com. So book, B-O-O-K-M-O-O-N-B-O-O-K-S, very pleasing with all those O's.
Maureen:
It's an East Hampton, Massachusetts, my friends run it. It's awesome. You get a shirt there. It says Read books, punch Nazis which you probably want and you can get lots of cool books. So books, just shop at your indie stores if you can right now.
Maureen:
They're hurting and all business to them is really critical to their continued existence. I can't really emphasize that enough.
Dan:
It's true. It is true.
Maureen:
Books.
Dan:
And if you're shopping on the internet, go over to merch.sayswhopodcast.com, that is M-E-R-C-H.sayswhopodcast.com and get your Says Who stuff including your These Aren't Bright Guys and things got out of hand face coverings which are arriving in people's mailboxes as we speak and they are very beautiful. Merch.sayswhopodcast.com. Bleach.
Maureen:
Bleach.
Dan:
Bleach.
Maureen:
Bleach.
Dan:
Bleach.
Maureen:
Bleach. Bleach.
Dan:
Bleach.
Maureen:
Welcome to Says Who, the podcast that isn't a podcast.
Dan:
It's a coping strategy. I am Dan Sinker.
Maureen:
I'm Maureen Johnson.
Dan:
You are Maureen Johnson.
Maureen:
Hi from New York.
Dan:
Hi.
Maureen:
Sure am.
Dan:
We are recording a little later today because you just had a flyby of the Blue Angels to support healthcare workers.
Maureen:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dan:
That seems ...
Maureen:
Boy, am I excited about it.
Dan:
Helpful and a thing, that's great.
Maureen:
I was about to say I don't want to be dismissive and then I was like, "Yes, I do." The healthcare workers ...
Dan:
On second thought.
Maureen:
It's exactly what I want to be. The healthcare workers here are asking for PPE and everyone to stay at home and what they got instead was an airplane show which I live in prime viewing territory for this airplane show and I looked out the window and the planes flew by my window and then I looked down and saw all the people gathered together in groups to watch the airplane show.
Dan:
Perfect. I will also point out that airplane shows and especially ones that involve actual military aircraft like the Blue Angels and the Thunderbirds are exorbitantly expensive and in addition, I can't imagine anything less welcoming to many New Yorkers than low flying aircraft.
Maureen:
We don't love it.
Dan:
I asked on Twitter and unfortunately, nobody has given me a decent numerical at this point, but I would wager that the cost of that air show would have bought a lot of N95 masks even at the exorbitant prices that they are currently being sold at, that seems like that would have been more supportive to healthcare workers than a momentary triangle of airplanes.
Maureen:
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, thank you. Someone. I don't want to I don't want to name names Dan, but someone got one of the masks that you made for me and was running around with it and it's just been rescued and brought back to me.
Dan:
Oh, was it Oscar?
Maureen:
And I don't want to name names. Someone was like, "I have the precious thing and then scurried away very proudly." She loves these masks Dan.
Dan:
If it has not arrived yet, there's a large collection of them heading your way, it should be showing up in the next day or two.
Maureen:
I'm very excited. I checked them. Well, I don't ... I check the mail a lot. I poke around and go, "Oh, I wonder if they're here yet." But things are taking a while to get here.
Dan:
Yeah, for some reason, this is a new occurrence. Again, I am a real logistics nerd, Maureen Johnson and I don't know why, but for some reason now, mail from Chicago to New York City routes through Kansas City, that did not used to be the case. I don't know why and so it takes ...
Maureen:
You are a logistics nerd.
Dan:
Yes. It takes quite a bit longer for mail to get to you than it used to. I don't know what changed, but clearly, something in the beleaguered postal service changed. All love to all postal employers for me always.
Maureen:
Yes.
Dan:
You are the best. You are my favorite [crosstalk 00:07:10]
Maureen:
She tried to get the mask again, it was under my computer so now I've shoved it on the front of my dress. [crosstalk 00:07:16]
Dan:
Well, you should be getting bunch very soon Maureen because basically, all I do now is make masks. As we were getting ready to record, I had to be like, "Hey, hang on just a second." I had to print postage to slap on 25 preschool kids-sized masks that are heading over to an indigenous group that has been putting out a call for masks especially for kids.
Dan:
These are heading over to rural New Mexico to a Children's and Family Center there. So it's all I do. It's all I do. Literally all I do now Maureen. I wake up, I make masks. I teach preschool to a four year old then I do my work, then I make masks again at night.
Maureen:
You're amazing.
Dan:
Honestly, it is the perfect stress coping thing for me. It is busy work that I measure with my hands that creates physical objects and that helps people. It is absolutely perfect for me, but I fully acknowledge that it is at the level of obsessive behavior because I am able to ... If somebody says, "Hey I need some." I'm able to pull them out of the large collection that we have usually without having to make them though, the 25 we had to sit and make.
Maureen:
I will tell you that the ...
Dan:
But it feels good.
Maureen:
... The mask you made me, I'm using those masks. I use those, I have ... In fact, today Dan, I wore a yellow dress today and you made me some yellow masks so I went out in a coordinated mask outfit and I thought to myself, "Yikes, I don't know that ... I'm not ready for mask culture yet Dan. I'm not ready."
Dan:
My friend Anna Lee posted a picture of herself wearing a button up shirt that, a red button up shirt with knives on it and she had a matching mask and it was incredible. I am here for a life lived in masks now Maureen. I have to admit, I feel complete when I put one on.
Maureen:
I know that this really does seem like it's suited for you.
Dan:
It really is and you know what? I am late to most television-related things, but I have been in the evenings, I have been using the treadmill that we got for Janice to do her running. I have been doing half an hour walks on it because I have greatly curtailed the amount of walking I am doing outside and I have started watching the watchmen television show and I feel like it has not gotten enough credit for the True Vision and amazing use of masks that exist in that television show. It was ahead of its time by like two and a half three months, but I am here for everyone just walking around looking like that.
Maureen:
Was I trying to talk you into watching Watchman a while ago?
Dan:
You were, you were and you know what? You were right.
Maureen:
It's good, right?
Dan:
It's amazing. It is legitimately amazing. I did not realize just how much of a departure from the comic it was going to be and I was very, very here for it.
Maureen:
I mean, this has been discussed a lot but certainly, it's brought to the fore what happened in Tulsa at the real events it's based on.
Dan:
Yeah.
Maureen:
Which I know was never covered in my history books.
Dan:
Oh no, I mean [crosstalk 00:11:23]
Maureen:
I heard all about it as an adult.
Dan:
It's a really, I mean, I am an episode and a half in, but the way it is able to sort of weave real past with speculative near future with sort of a very well set comic origin story and have it all work in a way that is feels totally new and fresh and amazing and everyone looks great in masks.
Dan:
I just, I would like us all to just continue to wear it masks Maureen, forever. Not even for health reasons, just because we all look awesome in them.
Maureen:
Dan, as I'm listening to your talk, it's got me thinking about, I've been thinking about this a lot today, and I actually read an article on it. I wonder if I still have the article up from earlier? And the article is about people feeling like when we ... Did you hear that big noise?
Dan:
No.
Maureen:
That's the noise she makes when she's getting cuddly. It's very dramatic sounding, it's very dramatic sounding. But it was an article somewhere, I'm not going to try to find it about people ... When this all started feeling like, "Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to wake up early, I'm going to have a healthy breakfast. I'm going to go do ... I'm going to do yoga, then I'm going to do two hours work, then I'm going to read ..."
Maureen:
And all these big plans for the start of the pandemic and then the article writer goes about how just feeling foggy and sluggish and like how aspirational and like that ... How bad she felt because she was like, "I didn't do any of these things. I just feel sluggish all the time." And it turns out there's a real thing.
Maureen:
The brain fog that comes from this is called something like [inaudible 00:13:26] or, I'm saying it wrong. It's basically too many stress hormones in the body basically washes out your brain so that everything just kind of goes moop.
Dan:
That sounds right.
Maureen:
And I'm listening to how much sewing you're doing then. Dan, I hear ... I feel two things simultaneously. One is that I feel like I never stop. I never sit down. I'm frequently running from room to room. Yeah, but at the same time, I feel like I'm sleeping a lot and not getting enough done.
Dan:
Yeah.
Maureen:
So all the exercising I planned on doing, very little that has come to pass yet. Every time I tried to do yoga, I did the internet slows down and I can't see it or the dog or I have to run and do something else.
Maureen:
Just the amount of time it takes to handle the food inventories, getting food to other places, the cleaning routines, the maintenance of everything, just keeping everything going, I'm ... I have done writing but not enough writing.
Maureen:
I have two books to write down, actually three. I've got a lot of books to write and I'm just frying ... There's the remote events now, there was like a con that was over completely on the internet this weekend.
Maureen:
There's lots of stuff going on. I just feel like I'm ... I feel like I'm not doing ... I'm not quarantining right and at the same time, I know that I am because we're healthy and I've completely kept the ship going.
Maureen:
Happily the other day, I did a quick online fundraiser for an amazing food bank in Trenton that has zero maintenance, it's literally just people in this church who just feed the community and there's no overhead, they just take whatever money they get in the dish, and whatever they're given and they just turn it into food. But that raised over a thousand dollars to fill the pantry in the kitchen. Yeah.
Dan:
That is awesome.
Maureen:
I don't have the final total yet, but it's over, it's like maybe closer to nine or 10,000.
Dan:
Jesus.
Maureen:
So that will keep them running for a while which is great. So the only thing I feel like I've been able to do that had a definite like, "Okay, I made sure that got done."
Dan:
Yeah, but this is the thing ...
Maureen:
But aside from that ...
Dan:
I feel like ... Well, no. Continue your thought, sorry. Aside from that.
Maureen:
Well, I'm tired a lot. I keep nodding out and I don't know if it's the ... It turned out I thank you for everyone who was very concerned about me not getting my drugs, some stock of that medicine has come back in. So I've gone back up to my normal dose.
Dan:
Oh good.
Maureen:
Just recently so I should be getting some more energy back, but I ... Because I do have this flare ... But I realized part of the reason I'm tired a lot is that these kind of changes strain my system and it makes me very sleepy and dopey and sometimes I get shakes or tremors or little flares.
Maureen:
Generally, I have not been in any pain, but I'm tired all the time. Sometimes mid morning, I just go out. I just nod, it's nuts. I just never really experienced this before where I'm just like, "And I'm out." And then I wake up again an hour later.
Dan:
I think that I have mentioned ...
Maureen:
And I'm not going to be angry at myself for it Dan.
Dan:
No. I think that I have mentioned that at the start of all of this, I started quarantining my phone before I went into my bedroom at night and it is ... It took, I would say the first week was like it felt like going through withdrawal. I was hyped up and keyed up and stressed out when I was in bed.
Dan:
But I force myself not to get up in and pick up my phone even when I would wake up in the night and it would usually reflexively reach over for my phone. It wasn't there.
Dan:
It took about a week of what really did feel like withdrawal symptoms and now, I get into bed, I write a little bit in my journal, I read about three pages in a book and then it's just like, I just fucking fall asleep like I've been shot.
Dan:
I think most of it has to do with just pure exhaustion by the end of the day of all of this, but it is wild a how fast I fall asleep and how hard I fall asleep at the beginning of the night.
Dan:
I am a notoriously bad sleeper. So it is still the rare night that I make it through completely, but it is ... I mean, we're all tired for a reason, this is tiring. At whatever capacity you are doing this, it is exhausting.
Dan:
I think that earlier you said, "I don't know if I'm quarantining right or anything like that." Anyone, if you're staying at home, if you're feeding yourself even adequately, if you are dealing as best you can with any of this, you are quarantining great. This is, every now and then ...
Maureen:
I cook elaborate meals Dan. I cook a God damn mother ... I always have. I'm a cook. If in any case, even at normal circumstances, I'm like, the answer is for me to cook something. But now, I'm like, "I need to make sure that we're super healthy."
Maureen:
And I'm also, I try to give Oscar little treats because I try to make stuff that I don't cook or eat. Did you hear that I was the one ...
Dan:
I did hear that.
Maureen:
I cooked him a dish he loves and can never get and remember again that Oscar is the one that asked for a rare steak and a chili's and successfully got it? His favorite food is like a French, like a Coq au vin, like a red wine, chicken cooked in red wine with some mushrooms.
Maureen:
It's his favorite food in the world and I made it. I got chicken, wine, and I'd never made this thing before but I was like, "I'm doing it." I was like, "Cooking the bait, the pen shut it down and the onions and the chicken." And I was like, "I'd never done this before." But apparently I nailed it. He was like, "That's one of the best things I ever ate."
Dan:
Wow.
Maureen:
So ...
Dan:
And quarantine no less.
Maureen:
[crosstalk 00:20:52]
Dan:
I would say that we are not stretching as cooks by any means.
Maureen:
Well, I also then I'm ... One of the things that I do is I run the food count. I always am checking, it's like I'm running a restaurant for two people.
Maureen:
This is naturally how I want to behave, I'm like, "Okay, this is the exact order of the produce that we're going to eat because we get food once a week. So we're going to eat in the order of freshness."
Maureen:
Salad, fragile foods at the beginning of the week, more hearty produce and things towards the end of the week. Also, our fridge broke and it's going crazy and was freezing all of our foods. So every time I was buying greens or salads, it was instantly destroying them.
Dan:
Yeah. I live in fear of our fridge and freezer breaking right now and it has been on a vague level of the fritz for like the last few months and now I'm like, "Why did I not get this repaired?" It just, we are getting some sort of water dripping down from the freezer into the fridge itself and so we have a couple of collection bowls inside the fridge and it's holding up just fine, but I am definitely at this point where I'm eventually we are going to discover that a week's worth of frozen goods is all dead.
Maureen:
Beans.
Dan:
Yeah. Well, we have a lot of beans.
Maureen:
White beans.
Dan:
I do have to say we got 20, I think it was 20 pounds of rice at the start of all of this and we are now at the bottom of that rice container. We have rice, we have done a lot of ricing, we've got to get some rice in our next order.
Maureen:
I guess, again, because we live in New York, we really live in the epicenter of the epicenter in a lot of ways. I think the true kind of epicenter might be Elmhurst in Queens, but our neighborhood is a big pocket.
Dan:
Yeah.
Maureen:
So the procedures I put in place to keep this apartment clean, keeping this place clean, it's ... Cleaning can be a displacement activity if you don't want to write like ... I mean, "I'll clean something." But I'm like, "No, it needs to be clean, it's not me just putting something off."
Maureen:
So there's a chart, I've made a chart on the fridge with dry erase that we check off and I make sure that floors are cleaned with bleach. Usually Tuesdays I did it yesterday down to get it out of the way, but once a week, the floors are cleaned with bleach that every single night, part of the reason Dan I'm going to bed at midnight is that every single night, I'm wiping everything down.
Maureen:
So every morning we wake up, there's always been a complete surface and I never miss, it's just, you're just ... There are buckets in certain corners and there's a station on the door that I made. There's a station on the door down there.
Maureen:
I put up like a hook system so all the masks are on these little hooks. Last time I went out when I went to Target right before this all started, there's a little command strip of like little pegs mastering, there's a drawer thing I have stuck to the door that has the Lysol and the bleach. I make fresh bleach spray every night. Dan, it's time ... This shit is time consuming.
Dan:
Yeah. We also ...
Maureen:
What I'm talking about is I realize ...
Dan:
We also have mask hooks by the door. We have our small, medium and large so that you can just go and grab your mask that you need as you head out including the little one, little dude masks.
Maureen:
Yeah, the procedures, it's just the procedures have to be followed and making sure that they're always followed takes time.
Dan:
Yeah.
Maureen:
And that every time we go through that door or something shows up that the proper procedure is followed because we really can't slip up here. We can't slip up.
Dan:
And look at this. You are probably what? Six, seven weeks probably indoors and you are ...
Maureen:
Are we?
Dan:
I think so. I believe that we both locked down at about the same time and we are approaching day 50 indoors. Day 50 will be this coming Saturday so it's been.
Maureen:
I believe we went in around the 13th of March.
Dan:
Yeah, that's when we went underground and yeah, I have been ... If you remember back to the day ... The before times when I talked about how I was stressed out and feeling like I was not keeping track of things and on a whim picked up a book about a journaling process called The Bullet Journal when I was at the library.
Dan:
And I have kept up with my bullet journal and now my bullet journal has doubled in every night, very brief, just a few little dashes and brief descriptions of the day and I headline them QD and then the number.
Dan:
So I have been keeping an exact numerical count since we have been inside. I've been doing it since day one and yeah, we'll hit day 50 on Sunday. Our 14 year old will be turning 15 on Thursday just to have a quarantine birthday.
Dan:
So that is something ... I remember when they first canceled school, they only canceled it at first for I think two weeks or something and he even then was like, "I'm going to be spending my birthday in quarantine aren't I?"
Dan:
And we were like, "Yeah, we think you are." And now, here we are, very last day of April is his birthday and it will be spent indoors.
Maureen:
Yeah. When I hear you talk and see what you're doing, all ... I feel a pale shadow of guilt like, "Maureen, you're not doing it right." What is that voice that keeps saying that I'm not doing it right?
Dan:
I mean, I have that same voice when I see other people, right? I think that we are in a very interesting moment where A, everyone's exhausted, B, everyone is doing the best that they can and C, everyone is sort of doing the same thing and so you can compare and contrast, but like, yeah, I mean, I know people that jumped in with both feet and now six weeks in are key parts of the supply chain for PPE or leading the charge and keeping a count of all of the testing cases and all of this and I look at them and I'm like, "I'm not doing anything."
Dan:
Or I see people that have really charged ahead on getting art done or writing done or that sort of thing and I mean, it's like for me, the masks it literally is just like, "Well, I could look at my phone, or I could use my hands." That's it and then it's like, "All right, I'll just do this."
Dan:
And the rest, I'm getting my job done, but there's all sorts of shit that I was supposed to be doing this spring that I have not even fucking begun to do and in fact, just last night, I was feeling vaguely guilty about all of those things because those are the much more future-focused things that I would like to be accomplishing so that I'm setting myself up over the next few years of things, I haven't done any of those. It's very hard to think about things in any law ... At least for me at any level of long-term planning feels impossible.
Maureen:
Yeah, I mean, I guess as I'm thinking, I really am doing all the things. I was a little behind on writing because I had about I would say three weeks of just utter brain fog where I could not write because my brain was constantly working on the problem of how do we get on the elevator and not die?
Dan:
Yeah. That seems reasonable.
Maureen:
It was really on that kind of level of can we breathe air in the hallway? Just trying to work out how to do this and like where should we get food from? What do we do when the bags arrive? Should I try to build something indoors if we can't? There was a while where we thought we wouldn't be able to go outdoors.
Dan:
Right.
Maureen:
If that might come up. So I'm like, "Do I need to build something indoors for the dog to go to the bathroom? And where do I do it?" When you live in an apartment, you have to constantly think like, "Where am I going to put this and how ... What am I going to have to build?"
Maureen:
And I built a bunch of stuff. I built a food area in the ... I build all these things. Just trying to figure out ... Yeah, so I mean, it was constant. It was never ending.
Dan:
Yeah.
Maureen:
And it completely filled my head like a giant balloon. So no, I wasn't thinking about the book I could write, I had to write because every time, I couldn't even read anything Dan and I heard that from a lot of people and I guess the message I'm trying to get out is if you're in that feeling of ... If you're like, "I got up and I ate half a yogurt." Good job. So I often hear from people who are like, "I can't fucking do anything." That are just almost paralyzed from this.
Dan:
Yeah. Seems reasonable.
Maureen:
So and that's completely reasonable and I really want people to feel good about ... I just want you to know that I feel the same way like this, "What am I doing? How does anything work?" I was like, "I should be a yoga instructor by now and all I do is look at the bike."
Maureen:
Now, I don't want to do anything because the dog keeps knocking over my yoga mat and then I just walk away because I got to go bleach everything. It's fine, guys, it's fine.
Dan:
I do remember week one.
Maureen:
It's a quarantine, not a competition.
Dan:
Yeah, week one I was doing all of these exercises and I was like, "I'm going to fucking come out of this thing ripped." I am doing all this shit and that was ... I did that one week. I just started doing some walking now just because I could feel my body begin to degrade to a point that I needed to change up again. But yeah, this shit is hard. This shit is hard and to that end Maureen Johnson.
Maureen:
Everyday I take the dog out mid-day for At least an hour, but I aim for an hour and a half. So that's the main ... I'm always out for like an hour to an hour and a half mid-day every day.
Dan:
If I was outside in the town that I live in for an hour to an hour and a half every day, I would be a mass murderer by now because I see way too many people with fucking no masks, not giving a shit and I had to I had to retreat indoors because I can't put up with it.
Maureen:
How are your plague neighbors? How are your Masque of the Red Death neighbors?
Dan:
So the direct Masque of the Red Death neighbors have retreated indoors to a degree that I have to wonder what happened, but they have now been replaced by the corner neighbors who have decided to just go for broke hell the birthday party, just start constantly outside, just this past weekend blocked off the sidewalks for half a block in two directions because they live in a corner so that their kids could just play on the sidewalks even though they have a yard.
Dan:
Yeah, I am surrounded by people that are not ... They aren't holding their end of the bargain in this and yet, I think they think they are. Anyway, Maureen Johnson, I want to take a break. I want to take a moment away from all of this prepper talk, all of this quarantine talk, all of this bleaching and cleaning talk and I want to bring us back to the halcyon days of Says Who from the before times.
Maureen:
All right, I'm ready.
Dan:
Okay Maureen Johnson.
Maureen:
Hit me.
Dan:
Over the course of the three and a half years, believe it or not that we have run this podcast, we have taken time to learn and meet many of the weirdo sketch Lords that surround Trump and his various people.
Dan:
We have spent time meeting people like Felix Seder who helped develop the Trump Tower Moscow project and who spent time in jail for getting in an argument with a commodities trader and stabbing him in the face with the stem of a wineglass, sending him to the hospital to get 110 stitches.
Dan:
We have met Joe Cinque, the former mobster known as Joey no socks who was once shot and left for dead and later on worked as an art fence and later still runs the six star diamond awards that lavish plaques on Trump properties.
Dan:
Even in these trying times Maureen, we are able to find new sketchy folks to talk about, but before we get to them, I have two that I want to tell you about.
Maureen:
Okay.
Dan:
But before we get to them Maureen, I first need to share, I feel like we have been so busy scrubbing our groceries and shit that we have fallen behind on some of these things. We have not discussed the fact that Michael Cohen, Mr. Says Who, the man that this entire podcast is literally named after may be released from prison because there's a coronavirus outbreak in the upstate New York prison that he is being held in.
Maureen:
It's all coming together Dan, it's all coming together.
Dan:
Even a week ago, it was sort of he was definitely being let out and now, apparently Trump has freaked out about that fact and now we don't know actually know where it stands in terms of him being released or not, but the other thing that we know is being released is that he is going to release a tell all book, just in time for the election which is definitely certainly absolutely, probably still happening in November.
Dan:
First question Maureen, how do we become ghost writers of that book? Are there two people like more qualified to write Michael Cohen's tell all for him than us? Are there two people more qualified to write Michael Cohen's tell all for him than us?
Maureen:
I mean, Dan, absolutely not. I don't want to say that I always knew that he was a star, but I always knew, that's why we are called Says Who. He's always been in my heart. Among my boy ... He's not a boyfriend. He's more a, I want to say he's my consort and I am so emotionally connected to him.
Maureen:
It's not love, it's something more ... It's beyond love Dan, it's the kind of symbiosis and between us, we could be the ... We want to carry your banner Michael, and I know a lot of ... You're going to have a lot of names on your dance card.
Maureen:
I know a lot of people are going to want your attention, but we're two writers who have always recognized you for what you are. A guy from Queens with a bunch of medallions who said awesome stuff like, "Says who?"
Maureen:
And we want to help you tell all because all of these other assholes with their fucking tell all books which we have sat through, I fucking read Steve Bannon, not even Steve Bannon [crosstalk 00:39:18]
Dan:
Forced themselves to read.
Maureen:
I never would have read [inaudible 00:39:20] book, but the one the Fire and the Fury [crosstalk 00:39:23]
Dan:
We read Omarosa's book Maureen.
Maureen:
We read, I read a fucking Omarosa's book, I read the Fire and the Fury which is about Steve Bannon, it's about all of it, but it has the amazing monologue at the end, the kind of who done it monologue, villainous monologue at the end that is I think of the oeuvre, that monologue at the end of Fire and Fury is my favorite of the things.
Maureen:
But Michael, you have a lot to tell and tell us, we understand you and we'd love you. What kind of hot garbage is this book going to be Dan? Oh wait, I forgot to laugh at something.
Dan:
Oh, it's going to be the hottest of garbage. Yeah.
Maureen:
Fuck it. Oh God. I'm blanking on his name, John. What's his face? Bolton? Where is your book now Bolton?
Dan:
Yeah, his book [crosstalk 00:40:18] came out.
Maureen:
Oh no.
Dan:
Never came out.
Maureen:
Oh, I'm not going to testify in the impeachment hearing. Wait for my book. Wait for my book that drops in March.
Dan:
Read chapter 14.
Maureen:
Was it March that it was supposed to come out?
Dan:
[crosstalk 00:40:32] come out.
Maureen:
Oh, I'm sorry go fuck yourself.
Dan:
It was supposed to come out in March and then May.
Maureen:
Oh.
Dan:
Yeah, but as far as I know, it is completely ...
Maureen:
Shit hand.
Dan:
Lost in time. Is there any chance that Michael Cohen's book is not named Says Me?
Maureen:
I think there's a chance, but I don't like it. I don't like that it's a chance. I'm looking at John Bolton's book now.
Dan:
Because it should be.
Maureen:
The room where it happened. This is bullshit. May 12.
Dan:
Yeah, so could still, that's going to be a fucking ridiculous virtual book tour that I am not going to take part in.
Maureen:
I will say this weird thing about it on Amazon where the first thing that came up, I just wanted to look up the date. Weirdly, under about the author, it says, "Jerry Seinfeld is the author of Seinlanguage, number one New York Times bestseller and one of the bestselling books of the 90s." So yes, the Amazon seems to believe that John Bolton's book has been written by Jerry Seinfeld. Why not? That's enjoyable.
Dan:
Oh, it might make a person want to read it a little bit more. Anyway, Maureen Johnson ...
Maureen:
That's hilarious.
Dan:
I don't want to dwell ...
Maureen:
Okay.
Dan:
I don't want to dwell in the rogue's gallery the past. I want to bring us into the present. I want us to meet two new members because we have been quarantining and damn it, we deserve it. I first want to introduce us to Brian Harrison who was tapped by Alex Azar, the head of the Department of Health and Human Services to head up the early days of the viral response at HHS.
Dan:
So we're talking like January, February, crucial days. Harrison was built as a top aid to Azar and his bio on the health and human services website says that prior to joining HHS, he ran a small business in Texas.
Dan:
That business Maureen was called Dallas Labradoodles. According to Reuters who broke this story, "The company sells Australian Labradoodles, a breed that is a cross between a Labrador Retriever and a poodle.
Maureen:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dan:
The White House derisively refers to him internally as the dog breeder. So he doesn't even get the respect of folks within the White House. It is though an interesting callback to Michael Brown who is the head of FEMA during hurricane Katrina and previously to joining FEMA had been the head of the International Arabian Horse Association and had been a horse breeder and not quite sure why breeding animals is a way into the federal government, but apparently, apparently it is. His financial disclosure form said that he sold Dallas labradoodles before joining us Health and Human Services for $225,000.
Maureen:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dan:
But Maureen, Brian is sort of just a minor character who probably is responsible for a lot of shit that we are currently living in, but the person that I want to talk more about is the person that is at the center for one theory for why your medicine Maureen ... How do you pronounce it? Hydroxychloroquine, is that right?
Maureen:
Hydroxychloroquine I think. Yeah, I always call it Plaquenil, that's the ...
Dan:
Yeah.
Maureen:
[crosstalk 00:44:51] hydroxychloroquine.
Dan:
But one working theory for why your medicine has been in such short supply and and I want to preface this by saying that nobody actually knows why so much right wing media and the president himself became a huge booster of hydroxychloroquine, chloroquine, it sounds better as chloroquine, I can't ever pronounce words well.
Dan:
But this was the wonder drug for like a month, everyone was talking about ... The President was talking about it constantly until of course last week when early tests actually came out that said, not only does it have no effect on COVID patients, it may actually result in more deaths of COVID patients which is awesome, and everyone stopped talking about it.
Dan:
And there are a few different connections between manufacturers of this drug and the Trump administration, but the one I want to talk about I want to talk about because Maureen, his name is Joe pizza.
Maureen:
All right Dan, I'm going to go. No. Dan.
Dan:
Joe Pizza. P-I-Z-Z-A like the triangular food. So all of the reporting that I'm going to be citing here, it comes from a muckraking site called Sludge. So your mileage may vary but again, Joe Pizza.
Maureen:
Yeah, no I ...
Dan:
Joe Pizza is the CEO of Interchem which sells ingredients for pharmaceuticals including hydroxychloroquine sulfate which is the key ingredient in Plaquenil and all of those types of drugs. Now, quick aside that I just needed to pull up because I didn't include it in my notes, but everything that I have read about Joe Pizza refers to him as being in the band Muffin which for the life of me I cannot find any reference to the band Muffin anywhere.
Maureen:
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You don't get to go that quickly past Joe Pizza who creates chemicals is in a band called Muffin. You don't get to just state by that.
Dan:
We're going to get back to that. No, trust me, we're skating right into that Maureen.
Maureen:
Okay.
Dan:
I am pulling up Joe Pizza's bio from a website called Sceneworks Studios. Joe has been a professional musician since signing with United Artists at age 14. Later, he formed the band Muffin with his giant childhood friend Ron Mannino and they played two packed houses.
Dan:
Again, I can find no references to a band called Muffin with a member named Joe Pizza, but this is important. Since then, Joe has written the music lyrics to over 200 songs. He has also penned numerous plays one act and screenplays.
Dan:
His musical, All for Joe, for which he wrote the book Music and Lyrics has been showcased at the Duke Theater on 42nd Street New York. Joe and Ron, this his childhood friend Ron Mannino from the band Muffin took a break from life on tour and began a pharmaceutical company Interchem Corporation.
Maureen:
Nope. Nope.
Dan:
I know a lot of musicians Maureen, I know a lot of musicians who take a break from what is it admittedly a very difficult life. I don't know any that are like, "How about a pharmaceutical company?"
Maureen:
Yeah.
Dan:
Though he is a successful businessman, Joe has always remained a musician at heart. He's co-chairman of the Board of Directors of the Drama League of New York.
Dan:
In addition to the Drama League, Joe and his wife Lauren, are also huge supporters of the Actors Fund and primary stages. Joe along with Scenework Studios has signed on as investor of the Tony Award winning musical Dear Evan Hanson as well as Dreamgirls London, significant other Broadway and found a new musical.
Maureen:
Nope.
Dan:
In addition to being a patron of the arts Maureen, Joe Pizza is also a big Trump donor.
Maureen:
Stop saying Joe Pizza.
Dan:
I can't. I can't Maureen, we haven't even gotten into Lauren Pizza yet. He's a big Trump donor. According to this report again in Sludge, he gave $125,000 to pro-Trump SuperPAC America First Action in 2019. America First Action is also the SuperPAC that pro wrestling wife Linda McMahon helps run.
Dan:
In 2019, there's a quote, "Mr. Pizza has also made large donations to other organizations. In fact, the president since 2016, he has given 62,500 to Trump Make America Great committee, 61,400 to the Republican National Committee and $4,000 to Donald J. Trump for President." Mr. Pizza.
Maureen:
Stop saying Mr. Pizza.
Dan:
Has made large donations ... Do you think that he hangs out with Trump Organization Chief Operating Officer Matthew Calamari?
Maureen:
Dan, Dan. Stop it. No.
Dan:
One place we know he does hang out though is Mar-a-Lago and we know this because his wife Lauren Pizza. Lauren Pizza has written a memoir, wrote a memoir a few years ago called Meant to be the lives and loves of a Jersey Girl. It is subtitled A Memoir more exciting than fiction. Maureen?
Maureen:
Dan?
Dan:
Would you like to hear the description of Lauren Pizza's book Meant to be the lives and loves of a Jersey Girl?
Maureen:
Go ahead. Do it.
Dan:
When Lauren Pizza was 13, she died.
Maureen:
Okay.
Dan:
Caught under a small sailboat, she struggled to reach the surface only to find what she thought was actually upside down and that's all she remembers ever since being resuscitated by two strangers, Pizza has felt a presence in her life from the spirit world. Is it crazy? Maybe. Her family sure thinks so. Growing up the youngest and sometimes forgotten, yes Maureen.
Maureen:
All right. No, continue. Continue.
Dan:
Growing up the youngest and sometimes forgotten of five in Little Falls, New Jersey, Pizza continues to live the typical life "down the shore after her accident." She survives High School barely, goes to college in Dayton, Ohio, which she might have thought was in Florida when she applied and is [crosstalk 00:52:17]
Maureen:
No. No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. No.
Dan:
Just reading copy Maureen. And is ready to settle down with her perfect Kennedy-ask boyfriend in Jersey until she wakes up suddenly free and single, Pizza relies on intuition and perhaps a few signs and finds herself a job in the city, a grungy apartment in the west village and waits for prince charming.
Dan:
When he finally arrived, she doesn't recognize him. He drives a red Ferrari, sure, but he has hair like Howard Stern and wears more gold chains than Mr. T. Meant to be is the story of a blue collar Jersey girl swept off her feet by an unconventional millionaire thrust into an entirely new world where she makes plenty of mistakes and sometimes feels like, "I'm from the Jersey Shore." Is stapled to her forehead with humor, gratitude and trademark, Jersey spunk, Lauren tells it like it is.
Dan:
The highs, the lows, the bad twist, the good advice from unlikely places and the time she wished she could disappear. Underneath the designer clothes and private jets, she's still the same Jersey girl who took the D train and lived on Snapple and she wouldn't have it any other way.
Maureen:
I pulled this up on Amazon Dan. So look at this bullshit for myself.
Dan:
Yes.
Maureen:
Okay. This is some hot, self-published bullshit if I have ever seen ...
Dan:
Oh, most def.
Maureen:
It's got ...
Dan:
Without a doubt.
Maureen:
This is some basic bitch stuff. Am I going to be harsh about this? Yes, then I am. I'm reading the prologue and it's ...
Dan:
Oh no.
Maureen:
So why did I want to write this book? Sam, my roommate from college is just sitting there blinking at me expecting an answer to her question like it's the easiest thing in the world to articulate.
Maureen:
Well, for once, I don't know what to say. I know what my husband Joe would say. It's that time in my life to do something creative. Christ, he makes it sound like menopause. I'm 40 freaking three, but it isn't really his fault. It's not like I told him the truth about why I'm doing this.
Maureen:
Then I went for my sins. I went to graduate school for writing. I got an MFA in nonfiction and there were so many people writing memoirs. I was one of the only people in my class not writing a memoir for which my thesis committee literally thanked me because the bullshit memoir is so ... The bullshit memoir became such a part of my training that when I saw bullshit memoir coming at me, I assume a defensive posture because every person like this thinks they've got a bullshit memoir in them.
Maureen:
And then suddenly, I saw face and thought, "God?" Followed by, "God has a five o'clock shadow?" Nope, I was looking into the face of the man who rescued me.
Dan:
Anyway, Maureen.
Maureen:
Dan.
Dan:
In Lauren Pizza's memoir meant to be the lives and loves of a Jersey girl. She writes, "I've spent the last decade and a half staying in five star resorts and dining with people who can buy the town I grew up in. Donald Trump sang Happy birthday to me at Mar-a-Lago ..."
Maureen:
I hate everything.
Dan:
And a billionaire sent me his private jet when I missed my connecting flight in Milan.
Maureen:
I hate everything.
Dan:
Joe Pizza and Lauren Pizza, the Pizzas if you will live in Palm Beach.
Maureen:
Uh-huh (affirmative), sure they do. That checks out.
Dan:
Mar-a-Lago regulars.
Maureen:
That checks out.
Dan:
And if, again, if, Joe Pizza is one of the reasons Donald Trump took your drugs, at least he was well named. Joe Pizza Maureen, Joe Pizza.
Maureen:
Stop saying Joe Pizza.
Dan:
Joe Pizza. Joe Pizza.
Maureen:
Dan.
Dan:
Says Who is made possible ...
Maureen:
Is any of this really happening? Because I thought I understood things before you started talking about Joe Pizza and now after that, I feel, I feel like someone has actually pulled back the backdrop of the simulation.
Dan:
Yeah. Every time that there's someone with a name like Joe Pizza or Matthew Calamari, or any number of the other weirdly named people in this, it does feel like there is a glitch in something.
Dan:
Joe Pizza, so I have to apologize to sayswhovians because this Joe Pizza story has been circulating for a few weeks now and the first couple of times that I heard it, I assumed that people were talking about a character from a sketch comedy show because who is actually named Joe Pizza? It turns out Joe Pizza from the band Muffin who took time off from the road started a pharmaceuticals company.
Maureen:
Forgotten about Muffin.
Dan:
Says Who is made possible by you through your support of our Patreon at patreon.com/sayswho, a reminder to you that every Sunday, we are giving you quarantine specials if you are a town watch supporter that is $5 a month or up. The Sunday I think we might play a round of friends or dark friends.
Maureen:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dan:
You can also get Says Who Merch at our Merch store at Merch, M-E-R-C-H.sayswhopodcast.com, our theme music is performed by Ted Leo who I want to just give a plug. He dropped me a line the other day, a friend of his has put together a 40-minute long 70s-esque musical review that is just fantastic called Musique. I think it's at network77.org.
Dan:
It is really really good and near the end features Ted Leo singing a really wonderful song on a yacht. So worth checking out. Our logo is designed by Darth, you can contact us at Says Who podcast on Twitter, you can email at hey, that is H-E-Y @sayswhopodcast.com.
Dan:
You can join the discussion on Facebook at /group/sayswhovians, our Facebook group is moderated by Janice Dillard and holy cow is it filled with wonderful great people that are supporting each other through this very weird and very difficult time that we are all bumbling our way through.
Dan:
You can spread the word, subscribe and please leave stars and reviews on Apple podcasts or wherever you may listen to your podcasts. Once again, everyone that does podcasts are finding that less people are listening and that is because as you may know, no one's going to work right now or to gyms or doing the things that often is when you listen to podcasts.
Dan:
I know for myself, my own podcast listening is down because of those facts and that has certainly been true with our listenership. We have seen a decline in listenership. So one way that you can help with that is to write reviews, not just at Says Who, but of any podcast that you love, especially the podcasts that you may love that you are not finding the time to fit into your schedule right now is good and a great way of helping and supporting all podcasts at this moment in time.
Dan:
You can join us next Wednesday, May 6th for our next episode or once again, this Sunday for a quarantine special if you are a town watch back around our Patreon and with that, from my basement in Chicago, I am Dan Sinker.
Maureen:
And from New York City where we're all here together in a place of appreciation and place of growth Dan, we're growing together and I don't even have the heart to do this Dan.
Maureen:
The Joe Pizza stuff has taken it out of me. I don't have it. I can't even fake it today. I fucking tried and I was like, "I don't have it. Fuck it. I give up. Fuck it Dan, I just don't."
Dan:
Just say your name then.
Maureen:
Well, fuck it. Just ...
Dan:
She's Maureen Johnson.
Maureen:
I'm going to end up reading that [crosstalk 01:01:58]
Dan:
This has been Says Who.
Maureen:
I'm going to read fucking memoir. I'm not going to read that memoir. I'm not.
Dan:
Oh, if you read that memoir, that is a fine Town Watch topic though.
Maureen:
Mm-mm (negative). Nope.
Dan:
Do it.
Maureen:
Nope. You can't make me. I'm not going to do it.
Dan:
What if we did make it?
Maureen:
You can't make me.
Dan:
We could try.