When two goon associates of Rudy Giuliani get arrested at the airport with one way tickets out of the country, you know that your pals Maureen and Dan are going to discuss it. That, and a lot more. Let's go.
We all feel pretty experienced around here in SaysWhovia. We like to think we can handle some news, and even a lot of news. It takes practice to deal with a week like the last one, in which it was all of the news. Do you think someone with a 2016 brain could handle goons disappearing in the middle of the night with one-way tickets to Vienna and a company named Fraud Guarantee? 2016 brains would have blown up. We are tough now.
At least, Dan is. Dan has to mainline this stuff all day, every day, because he started a impeachment update service and now this is his life. Maureen can skate on. She has spent this last week in Los Angeles, looking at movies and strange LA businesses that do things like cryofreeze your aura. She has stories of hotel rooms, fruit, and a nice man with a camper stove. Dan just wants to talk about impeachment, because his mind is full and the news is starting to come out of his beard.
And who knows? Maybe by the end of it all, Dan will also exchange texts with Rudy. Why not?
Get your phone out, SaysWhovia.
Dan: This episode of Says Who is brought to you by you through your support of our Patrion at patrion.com/sayswho. And people, we have been doing this Patrion for one year now and at the end of the episode we have some big one year Patrion announcements for you.
Maureen: Stay tuned because it means you get stuff from us.
Dan:You are going to get some stuff.
Maureen:You're going to get stuff.
Dan:If you are backer of our Patrion at Patrion.com/sayswho.
Maureen:Hey, y'all. It's Maureen.
Dan:Hey, Maureen.
Maureen:Back from Los Angeles here to talk about books. I know. We'll get into it. We'll get into it, Dan because I was tooting around in LA while you were working on impeachment stuff. So we'll talk about that. But books. I cannot emphasize enough how out Truly Devious has been for two years. And also it's sequel the Vanishing Stair and coming in January, the Hand on the Wall finishes it all, ties up every goddamn story line, gives you every answer. It is the end of a four year word problem and I have written it. And when I arrived in LA, I finished those pages on a plane, stuffed them in an envelope and FedEx'd that shit from the hotel desk.
Dan:Done. Gone. Out of your head. Out of your hands and out of your head.
Maureen:That's right. Also I wrote part of a book called Let It Snow. That's the Netflix movie, it's coming out next month, it has a new, shiny red cover. Perfect for Christmas but maybe get Truly Devious instead. Or nothing, get nothing. Or get some other book, I don't care. Books.
Dan:And hey, this is Dan, I accidentally two weeks ago started a whole thing called impeachment.fyi. If you are having trouble keeping up with all of the news around the impeachment, and only the impeachment, you can sign up for a newsletter at impeachment.fyi and it will come to you written by me every early evening. Or if you are in the Los Angeles area, late afternoon. It is a thing I do, impeachment.fyi.
Maureen:[inaudible] got a job by accident, the Dan Sincer story. I don't know what that ... I don't know. Hey, Dan, are you ready to get going here?
Dan:Hold on just a second. Just hang on. So what you're saying-
Maureen:Dan, what are you doing?
Dan:Is, what? Hold on just a second. What you're saying is that you were not doing [crosstalk 00:03:00].
Dan:I just got to finish this text real quick, Maureen.
Maureen:Who are you texting?
Dan:It's nothing, Maureen. Okay so you were not doing crimes in Ukraine? Sent.
Maureen:What?
Dan:Nothing. Oh, hey, Maureen. Welcome to Says Who.
Maureen:No, Dan I heard that. What was that?
Dan:It was nothing Maureen. I have a lot of things going on Maureen.
Maureen:I understand that. But that's not one of them.
Dan:I just got a lot of things going on. But we are here for, let me check my notes. We're doing, okay. Next on my list of Says Who. Hello, Maureen Johnson.
Maureen:Yes. Just tell me who you -
Dan:Nothing. It was nothing, Maureen.
Maureen:Just tell me. Just tell me.
Dan:It's just a little ... It was just a question.
Maureen:To?
Dan:It doesn't matter. Welcome to Says Who.
Maureen:Just say it.
Dan:I did. I said welcome to Says Who and then the theme music plays.
Maureen:You know what? It was Rudy. I know it was Rudy.
Dan:Goddamn it Maureen. Sh.
Maureen:Welcome to Says Who.
Dan:Welcome to Says Who, the podcast that isn't a podcast.
Maureen:It's a coping strategy. I'm Maureen Johnson and I'm here with the puppy who's asleep on my leg.
Dan:And I am Dan Sincer and I am here on my own.
Maureen:Aw, man. You know I always record now with her sleeping snuggly against my leg, right?
Dan:I do. Just a few months ago that was an impossibility.
Maureen:She's come a long way, Dan. She's eight months old now.
Dan:It is wild watching puppies grow up because they do the whole thing in fast forward. Has she lost all her teeth now?
Maureen:Oh yeah, she's got all of her big teeth. She's got all of her big teeth now.
Dan:That's my favorite part. Having raised children, they lose their teeth over years. And when you have a puppy, they lose all of their teeth in like two days. Maybe a week.
Maureen:One time when I was a kid one of my teeth was loose but it wasn't coming out. You know, it was stuck in there, it didn't want to pop out. And we were discussing all of the old timey remedies like you tie a string around it and you shut a door, all of those things. And then my father said, here just bite my finger and maybe ... I don't know what he was thinking but I said okay. And I chomp and apparently I bit him real hard and he was like shocked. And I said, well you did tell me to bite your finger.
Dan:What?
Maureen:I don't know. He had me bite his finger. I don't think it did anything except I bit him.
Dan:Did the tooth come out?
Maureen:I don't think so. Apparently human bites are really, really bad and they get very bad infections too.
Dan:Meaning when you bite someone?
Maureen:Yeah. Fact from nurse mom. She was helping treat someone who had a people bite.
Dan:I just like the idea of your mom sitting down with a young Maureen Johnson being like, "Maureen, we need to talk about what happens when a person bites a person."
Maureen:You're not, though that was more recent, you're not far off from what the discussions are like. Nurse mom used to drill me, when I was 16 or so and I was getting ready to go to college, when I was in the car with her she used to drill me on generic names of medications and proper dosages. This was a real thing that would happen.
Dan:You've mentioned this. You've memorized all the generics.
Maureen:She made me. She made me. She said, "Maureen, what's the over the counter name for that? How long is the medication's patent for?" 17 years. "That's right, 17 years. Now what's the generic name for this and when can you take that? When is it indicated? How many times a day?"
Dan:So at what point did she talk to you about bites?
Maureen:Recently.
Dan:Okay. What precipitated that?
Maureen:A friend of the family who was a nurse was bitten and it was a bad one. She had a patient who bit her. And it happens. And that's what she always says, "Maureen it happens." I guess the thing I've learned from nurses that I love so much is no matter what it is, it's happened. It's happened. They've just seen it at least once and they're like, "Yeah, it happens." And you're like what? And they're like, "Yeah, people do it. It happens." So whatever you've done that you think is embarrassing, it's not.
Maureen:So my friend Cassie watches this show, True Tales of the ER or something like that obsessively. And she loves to recount True Tales of the ER. And it is my favorite thing of Cassie retelling true tales of the ER because her favorite one was the one in which a man went camping by himself, got lonely and, look dear sissy I'm about to swear here, okay? It's going to get saucy. Dan, he fucked his camp stove.
Dan:What? Excuse me?
Maureen:Just what I just said.
Dan:That seems ...
Maureen:He put his dingle donger in the camp stove, Dan. And then it got stuck.
Dan:Weird.
Maureen:I know. I had so many questions. Like but where? What kind of? Is it a gas stove? What's happening here? Anyway, he had to take the whole thing, stove and all ... He had to go to the ER with the thing, looking like a dick in a box. Like he's holding a camp stove and he had to go in and get it removed. And I told this story to my mother except I phrased it a little more gently because I'm very soft spoken around my mother, I don't swear even. It's very lovely how we speak. We speak like Victorian children to each other. And I said, "And she watches this show." And she's like, "Oh I watch that show too." And I said the one about the- and she said, "Oh the camp stove, yeah, that happens." And just the way that they say it.
Maureen:Nurses, even the most pristine, prim ones, like my mother. My mom is the most prim person in the entire goddamn world. She is ... One time when I was a kid she said to me, "Maureen, how would you feel if I wore leggings?" I mean that shocks my mom. My mom has never been drunk, she's never smoked a cigarette, she's like, "Maureen, I was born in the wrong decade. I should have been born in like the '20s." And I like old timey music and she likes to sing about the Nickelodeon and stuff. She's a very pure person but she has seen people put their dick in everything. It just does not phase her.
Dan:Wow.
Maureen:What were we talking about?
Dan:We were talking about that biting gets a lot of infections.
Maureen:Where were we before that?
Dan:I don't remember anymore. But I do remember Maureen Johnson, that you very recently were in the fine city of Los Angeles, California because you have some exciting news about a thing that people can watch.
Maureen:The camp stove, Dan. Like he was alone camping. And of all the objects there, and we're not going to dwell on this, but would you choose the one that it's job is to be on fire?
Dan:No.
Maureen:I mean, I'm not saying that there are any good choices but is that the one?
Dan:Maureen Johnson.
Maureen:I'm just saying.
Dan:Enough beating around the bush, if you will.
Maureen:Nope. Dan. No-
Dan:You have a movie coming out on the Netflix channel.
Maureen:That was very under the radar and I feel like you deserve a little round of applause. Oh we've gone quite saucy this week. Saucy.
Dan:That's just how it goes now. Maureen, I am hanging on by a fucking thread here.
Maureen:Dan, I was in Los Angeles this week and as such, I have no idea ... I don't have no idea. I have less of an idea than usual but I cannot entirely separate myself from news. I still follow it. But not as much. And LA is lovely and weird. When you walk around LA you understand how gook happened, for sure.
Dan:It's true.
Maureen:They straight up were selling some magic rocks in the lobby of my hotel. The water bottles infused with magic rocks. And there's a lot of services, beautiful storefronts, with "medical services" that I don't know what they are. Holistic, light finger healing where you're like, "I don't know what's going on in there. It's lasers?" I don't know. Definitely a lot of cool spa, Botox, but other stuff that hasn't reached the rest of us yet that you're like, I don't know. You go in and you ... I don't know what happens in there but you come out better somehow. And yeah. It's stuff that you're like, "Oh that's a California joke." Oh no, it's real and it's everywhere.
Dan:Yeah. When I go out to California, because I am doing work with the university out there, it is always amazing to me how many conversations center around astrology. That doesn't happen as much in Chicago.
Maureen:I will say that in the 10 minutes I had for lunch one day, because I usually don't have to ... I was criss crossing the city because I had meetings. But they were all on different sides of the city and I didn't realize ... So when I got this schedule, every meeting I had to cross, entirely, Los Angeles and then back again to where I'd just been. So I had 10 minutes to get some food and I ran into a restaurant and they were like, "Do you want to sit?" And I was like, no. Give me, and I looked at the menu and I went, "that. Avocado toast." I'm like it's pretty easy, you toast some bread, you put some avocado on it and then you hand it to me and I stick it in my mouth. And it was the best goddamn avocado toast I have ever had. I mean it was good.
Dan:They have really good food in Los Angeles.
Maureen:Man alive, that was a tasty piece of avocado toast. If we are in the same place, I will go back and enjoy that again. It was tasty. Nice, roastedy tomatoes on top and spicy greens, it was very good.
Maureen:Yes, so I was there doing meetings. Meetings are ... I was like what's a meeting? So there are these meetings called generals where you go and you meet people. And it's like a weird date. Like a blind date. You've been sent to meet somebody and it's a nonromantic blind date where they're like, "So what do you like?" And they all have identical moleskin notebooks that they take notes. And so you come in and they give you your drink and then they sit in a comfortable chair across from you like a therapist and then they open their identical moleskin notebooks and they go, "So, what are you doing? What are you interested in? Tell me what you're working on, what you like?"
Maureen:And then by the end of one of these meetings I was ranting at a fever pitch about cults and then by the third one, when I was so tired and I realized that, Dan, while I am much better, I reach my limits pretty easily and I get very tired and travel, especially, all jet lag seems to send my nervous system, it wacks it out. So I get very shaky and weird. But I was still going like a mile a minute. And I'm getting in this meeting and they're like what do you do? And I'm like I am a tape Bob Fossi musicals in meetings. I liked your scooter guy, where's your dog? What's going on with that? What does this button do? Pow pow. What do you want to talk about? I was just talking about cults with another person. I was at Netflix. Do you know that they have free snacks there? It was Taco Thursday. All their walls are screens. They also have one of them living plant walls. All the snacks you want. And a machine that gives you unlimited flavor seltzer water. Bye. And then I left.
Maureen:And when I went outside, on the street, which was near Venice Beach, I saw a couple on a tandem bicycle wearing matching lime green and bright silver biking Lycra suits that look like goddamn aliens and they had the speaker on the back of that tandem bike blasting Eye of the Tiger. I shit you not, I took a picture of it.
Dan:But Maureen, I feel like you are dancing around the fact that you have a fucking movie coming out.
Maureen:One more thing, Dan.
Dan:In like three weeks.
Maureen:My last night there, we'd just had some dinner. I walked out, I was in the hotel and I said, "Oh that's really cute." Even though it's warm out the hotel has a wood burning fire. Oh, it's in the lobby and it's in the elevator and in this hallway, also in my room and in my hair and oh no. That's just LA burning. The smell was so strong from this big fire in Northern LA that it just smelled like one giant wood burning fire. And people seemed very nonpulsed by it. They were like, "Oh yeah." I was like, what is happening? This is terrifying. And they're like, "No, it's fine."
Maureen:I met with my publicist who was like, "Yeah, I may have to go in a minute. My house is like a mile from this fire." I was like what? She seemed fine. It won't cross the highway. Oh my God. Anyway.
Dan:Anyway, you have a movie coming out Maureen. Goddamn it, I am pulling this show over until you hype your own goddamn movie.
Maureen:It's out in three weeks. It's called Let It Snow. And I saw it. I went out there to see it. That's why I was there. And it's really funny. I mean it's genuinely good. I shit you not, because if you see it you can decide for yourself, but it's actually really fucking good and very funny.
Dan:That's awesome.
Maureen:It's also romantic and sweet and stuff but I like the really funny bits because it has some really, genuinely funny bits in it. It's very, like a John Hughes movie but without the stuff in it you wouldn't want because of the present day. Like the spirit of that kind of proper, teenage comedy movie.
Dan:An '80s teen comedy without the '80s casual racism.
Maureen:Yes. And rapiness and et cetera. It has none of that but all of the comedic spirit. It's funny.
Dan:I am excited. I am excited, Maureen. I am excited for this and I am excited for you.
Maureen:I hope that your large son likes it.
Dan:I think he will. We will all watch it. When does it come out? When does it come out? When does it come out?
Maureen:It comes out on the 8th of November so I'm going back to LA again.
Dan:Yeah you are.
Maureen:As far as I know I'm going back in like two or three weeks for the premier. An actual premier and we have to wear a dress to go to the movie theater.
Dan:That's exciting. It's all happening Maureen.
Maureen:Dan, i'm taking my parents which means I not only have to get myself dressed and all but I have to get my parents, I'm getting them tickets I'm like, "Look, I'm taking care of it. I'm going to get you on that plane, get you the fancy seats so you can put your legs up," because my dad's got a medical condition and he's got to have his legs up all the time. It's a whole thing, Dan. And I'm going to get them there, and it's all going to be fine, Dan. It's going to be fine. I'm not nervous about getting my parents out to California at all. I'm not nervous, you're nervous.
Dan:It seems fine, Maureen.
Maureen:If anyone's nervous, you're nervous.
Dan:I'm nervous because I can no longer function for any part of the day anymore, Maureen. Maureen, two weeks ago I decided to, I don't know what I did to myself, but now I have a full time job on top of all of my other full time jobs tracking the impeachment.
Maureen:And we are all grateful for your service.
Dan:Well I appreciate that but [inaudible 00:20:14]? I don't know. I don't know anything anymore. Anyway, Maureen, let's talk about this week's news.
Maureen:Yeah, Dan, because I have been kind of ... you know. And so would you mind explaining to me?
Dan:Well, Maureen, I would be happy to. Because I basically track every single day now, in terms of the impeachment at impeachment.fyi, I know a lot. But there's also a bunch of stuff that doesn't get covered because it's not ... This is the best that I can describe the editorial thinking of impeachment.fyi. There are two types of stories, Maureen. There are stories that move the ball forward and there are stories that better describe the ball. And mostly I am keeping track of the ones that move the ball forward. But there are all sorts of interesting ball discovery stories that I don't get to do. And Maureen, you know who is at the liquidy center in the middle of this impeachment candy?
Maureen:Tell me.
Dan:Rudy Giuliani.
Maureen:Oh that's the nut at the center of the candy bar.
Dan:Yeah. You know there are a lot of weird candies with shit in the center. We're coming up on Halloween and it's like that's when they all come out. Like a Tootsie Pop, Jesus Christ. No.
Maureen:I love Tootsie Pops.
Dan:Or the worst of them all, which is the Super Blow Pop, the one with gum in the middle instead of the tootsie thing. Because it's just like your chewing gum that is full of glass.
Maureen:I love, if there are Tootsie Pops on sale at a counter, I'll buy one.
Dan:Really? Not a Tootsie Roll but the actual lollipop with Tootsie shit in the middle?
Maureen:Mm-hmm (affirmative). Especially the red ones. They're delicious. They're the only kind of candy that I'll pick up because they're just so tasty.
Dan:I don't know about this.
Maureen:You hate candy corn, right? Because it's disgusting.
Dan:Oh yeah, it's awful.
Maureen:Yeah, it's the grossest thing.
Dan:It's like eating orange wax.
Maureen:Yeah, if you wanted to be miserable like that you could just stay at home and eat a candle. So why wouldn't you? People, I'll never understand. I will never understand, Dan.
Dan:Our friend, Akilah Hughes, is ride or die with candy corn.
Maureen:Really?
Dan:Yeah.
Maureen:[inaudible 00:22:58].
Dan:I just had an exchange with her about it and I told her I'd ship her all the fucking candy corn that's going to accumulate in my kids Halloween basket in a couple weeks.
Maureen:That's beside the point, Dan. What happened in impeachment this week? Tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me.
Dan:I want to talk to you about Rudy Giuliani, Maureen.
Maureen:I'm a New Yorker, Dan. Why are they doing this to us?
Dan:It's your fault. So yesterday, Fiona Hill, who is a little known national security council staffer, she's billed as the president's top aid on Russia and Europe. She testified to the house committees that are running the impeachment inquiry. And it was all behind closed doors but now there is some leaks that have come out. And it includes that John Bolten, he of Wingnut Mustache fame, of all people felt like Rudy Giuliani was too much of a wildcard, Maureen. He called him a hand grenade that would blow everything up.
Maureen:That's not good, Dan.
Dan:And you know what? He's doing an amazing job of it, I've got to say.
Maureen:Who, Rudy?
Dan:Rudy. Rudy. Rudy. Like this whole impeachment thing has been punctuated by Rudy moments but the last week has really been Rudy, Rudy, Rudy.
Maureen:It's a lot of Rudy and we New Yorkers do not appreciate it.
Dan:Yeah. Well he got some help last week, and this is really what I want to talk about, Maureen. So we have many times on Says Who podcast, discussed all of the weird, edge lord characters that swirl around the Trump universe. You know, there was Felix Sader who cut a guy with a champaign glass and ended up in jail and Michael Cohen who was doing all the crimes. Just all these weird ass people. Well two of the weirdest asses have emerged in Rudy's circles, of all places. And they had a real big week last week.
Dan:So they kind of came on the radar, to give Buzz Feed some credit, Buzz Feed wrote about these dudes back in July, before the whistleblower, before impeachment, before anything. But this Monday, the house requested documents from these two Soviet born now Florida businessmen named Lev Parness and Igor Fruman. They apparently have been Rudy's guys in the Ukraine. They have been his guys on the ground, they've been giving his connections and all of that. And so on Monday, they were asked to deliver documents to the house. Their lawyer, who wrote a letter in Comic Sans, Maureen, said that they would not be doing that. And then on Thursday night, at Washington DC's worst airport, Dulless, they were arrested with one way tickets out of the country and charged with campaign finance violations associated with their work in Ukraine. Earlier that day, Maureen, they had had lunch with Rudy Giuliani at Trump's DC hotel.
Dan:Can I tell you about these guys, Maureen?
Maureen:I'd love to hear about it.
Dan:They are just a bottomless pit of what the fuck is going on? So they're these two dudes, Lev Parness, who seems to be more the talker and Igor Fruman who looks a little bit like he's wearing a face stretched on top of his actual face. Lev was born in Ukraine but he moved to New York as a kid. Apparently he got his start in real estate selling Trump condos for Fred Trump, Trump's dad. Then he went and worked in shipping in the Soviet Union, which I didn't know you could just do, and then he came back to the States and became a securities trader.
Maureen:None of those are shady jobs at all.
Dan:Mm-hmm (affirmative). No. And then Igor Fruman, he was born in Belaruse, he lives now in South Florida, he owns a bunch of luxury businesses, a jewelry store, luxury cars. He also at one point, I don't believe he owns it still, he owned a hotel in Odessa Russia and it had a nightclub in it, Maureen, that was named Mafia Rave.
Maureen:What?
Dan:Yes. Yes. Yes, Maureen, Mafia Rave.
Maureen:I'm just going to have to ... You're just going to have to continue.
Dan:Yeah. So these two dudes came into Trump's orbit. As far as anyone knows, a lot of this is based on really, really good reporting by the Washington Post. These two came into Trump's orbit right after the Access Hollywood tape dropped in 2016. To bring you back to that moment in time, which was almost three years ago to the day, I think it was just like last week, the Washington Post received a video tape of Trump talking about grabbing people by the pussy in a never aired audio clips from Access Hollywood thing. And if you remember then, a whole bunch of people, including Mike Pence, tried to distance themselves from Trump and his donations dried up. This was a month before the 2016 election.
Dan:According to the Washington Post, it was right then that Lev Parness shows up with a $50,000 donation for the Trump campaign and the Republican party. And that is where Lev and Igor ended up being a part of this Trump [inaudible 00:29:55]. So the Washington Post, again, by spring 2018, the two men had dined with Trump, breakfast with his son and attended exclusive events at Mara Lago and the White House, all while jetting around the world and spending lavishly, particularly at Trump Hotels in New York and Washington.
Dan:The Washington Post that in one five week period between September 2018 and October 2018, the two men racked up more than $13,000 in charges at the Trump hotels in New York and Washington.
Maureen:That's a lot of shitty wedge salads.
Dan:A lot of wedge salad. You are choking down a lot of wedge salad.
Maureen:Second rate massages.
Dan:Yeah. Yeah. So in addition to giving money to Trump in May 2018, a pro-Trump pack got a $325,000 donation from a new energy company that had been formed by Parness and Fruman. It's important, Maureen, for all the money that they're throwing around to note that nobody knows where their money comes from. The charging documents alleged that they're backed by an unnamed Russian national who used them to funnel donations to state and federal candidates.
Maureen:So an energy company that doesn't exist that's funded from an unknown source? Or a source that is a Russian national?
Dan:Seems to be. We don't know, but this is where things get weird. So these two dudes are running around Ukraine in the last eight months, or whatever, on behalf of Rudy Giuliani. So you would think that they're on Giuliani's payroll, right?
Maureen:Right.
Dan:These seem like exactly the kind of goons that Rudy would have on retainer. But it turns out that, in fact, they hired Rudy.
Maureen:To do what?
Dan:Well, funny you should ask. So they started a company, Maureen, that paid Rudy Giuliani a half million dollars. That company is called Fraud Guarantee.
Maureen:Yeah. Yeah, this is ...
Dan:Yeah. Yeah. They hired him for a half million dollars to give advice on cyber security.
Maureen:What? Here's the thing Dan, in order to not spoil myself, I did not ... I wanted to, quite specifically not look at some of the notes. And I am genuinely, I don't quite know what to od with that one, Dan.
Dan:Neither did the Washington Post who asked him and Rudy explained, I know a lot about cyber security so they wanted my advice.
Maureen:Jesus wept.
Dan:Can I ask for a show of hands for who thinks that Rudy Giuliani knows a lot about cyber security?
Maureen:Dan, as someone who has just had a very long conversation with the unnamed relative about those goddamn email forwards that we were like, this is a tracker email and we had to go through and explain to him that all of these are made in a data farm somewhere ... I am gritting my teeth right now, Dan. Rudy?
Dan:Yeah, Rudy. Rudy seems like the kind of guy who's username and password are both Rudy.
Maureen:I bet when Rudy turns his computer on and it makes that bong noise, he thinks that fucker's about to blow up.
Dan:He hits the deck?
Maureen:Where's the ... Oh I took a picture of my stomach. No.
Dan:It's worth noting, Maureen, that Rudy Giuliani received a series of text messages from Thalia Loven, who is amazing on Twitter, where she was basically fucking with him and he just kept answering.
Maureen:Yeah apparently anybody can text Rudy.
Dan:He does not keep a tight ship. But anyway-
Maureen:No. I mean I would pay a lot of money just to have a reporter shout two factor authorization at an event just to see if he acknowledged even what that was.
Dan:He would that think somebody had just put a hex on him, I bet.
Maureen:I am so mad at everything all the time. All right, go on. I'm sorry.
Dan:It's okay. So half a million dollars to Rudy Giuliani for cyber security. I just want to put out here, again, Maureen that Rudy Giuliani is the president's personal lawyer who is not paid to be the president's personal lawyer. So that's interesting.
Maureen:What is happening? What is happening?
Dan:Anyway, Rudy and Lev and Igor spent most of this year running around Ukraine, mostly Lev and Igor, trying to get various people, politicians within the Ukraine, prosecutors within the Ukraine, to give them dirt on Joe Biden. In addition, the two dudes were also trying to work a weird energy deal for themselves and their weird energy company. And the same folks that they say were greasing wheels for Biden, or whatever, also were stopping them from doing the weird energy deal. So there's that.
Dan:And now, last week, the former fired US Ambassador to Ukraine testified that basically these dudes and Rudy were actively pressuring to get her out of the way. so that seems cool.
Maureen:What?
Dan:Yeah.
Maureen:Okay, no finish. I'll ask my questions at the end. I'll ask all my questions at the end.
Dan:All right. Well we're almost at the end. That brings us to last Thursday where they have lunch with Rudy at Trump's DC hotel. They go to the airport with one way tickets to Vienna Austria.
Maureen:Listen, people love those stallions they have in those choirs.
Dan:Yeah. Apparently Vienna was their main point of entry and then they would travel to other parts of Eastern Europe from there. And last but not least, Maureen Johnson, it came out that there was another person in the mix who was going to be traveling to Vienna Austria the day after they flew there on one way tickets. Do you know who that was?
Maureen:I do but I need you to say it.
Dan:It was Rudy, Maureen.
Maureen:It was Rudy.
Dan:That there were a few reporters that were trying to get Rudy and then he basically responded with, "I can't. I've got to go to Vienna." And then suddenly these dudes were arrested and he didn't go to Vienna.
Dan:Check out Maureen Johnson busting out the German. I don't know. I don't know anything.
Maureen:I can just shout prayers at you in German. Always good to get to crack out the old German. One of the first words of German I ever had to learn as a 14 year old was the word for forsaken.
Dan:That's pleasant.
Maureen:It's [German 00:38:01].
Dan:Sure. Sounds good. Rudy Giuliani, Maureen.
Maureen:[German 00:38:06]. I had to learn.
Dan:There's a deadline of today to turn over a bunch of documents to house investigative committees.
Maureen:Because I am forsaken, I think, at this point. Today, is he going to Dan? I bet he does.
Dan:Oh I'm sure. I'm sure that he will. Everything's great, Maureen. Everything's great.
Maureen:I did like the part where Trump was asked if Rudy Giuliani was still his lawyer and he was like, "I don't know."
Dan:Yeah, that Friday he said he didn't know but then on Saturday, he tweeted out a bunch of stuff in support of Rudy and then Rudy met him at his golf club in Virginia for lunch.
Maureen:Presumably because he got a call late that day that was like, "Donny, I got folders and folders of shit on you."
Dan:Something. Who knows? I mean, granted, Trump also had lunch with Michael Cohen at Mara Lago not long before Michael Cohen was cut loose.
Maureen:Oh yeah, he'll stab you in the front.
Dan:But at least for now, at least for now, he is standing by his man.
Maureen:So Dan?
Dan:Yeah?
Maureen:You've spent an entire week balls deep in this stuff.
Dan:Yeah.
Maureen:What's your gut feeling right now?
Dan:So it is interesting, Maureen. I think ... So last week was interesting because last week was basically the White House shutting things down. They blocked the US Ambassador to the EU, Gordon Sondlind from testifying and then they issued this letter basically saying this is an illegitimate process and we won't comply with any of it. And then it feels like cracks are forming. So people are testifying. Fiona Hill, who testified yesterday, was actually the first person specifically from the White House side of government to testify. She was not blocked by the White House but there was some legal wrangling very early in the morning between White House lawyers and her lawyers trying to stop her from talking about specific things because White House lawyers basically argued that they fell under executive privilege and her lawyers basically responded like, executive privilege does not exist if there are crimes.
Dan:So you know, she testified. Sondland, who kind of kicked off all of last week's White House fight is testifying this week, he just cannot produce his phone or other things because those are held by the state department who won't turn them over. He's testifying this week, there are multiple state department people that are testifying this week. It feels like last week they tried to put up a wall and this week we are starting to see some cracks in that wall. Is the wall going to fall? I don't know that I'm going to go that far. But it does feel like his grasp on control of the situation is getting more and more tenuous.
Maureen:It feels ... It feels like we're in a cartoon, on one of those cartoon cliff edges and then you see the little ... We're kind of Wile E. Coyoteing on the edge and looking over and seeing the cracks form and then holding up a sign that says Help.
Dan:Yeah, that's what it feels like but it's felt like that before.
Maureen:I don't know, Dan. I'm still holding on. I think by the end of the year, I still think by December, we're at least talking about a very full on ... I'm even starting to wonder. Because what you haven't discussed was the situation with Turkey and the unbelievable human tragedy that we have caused there.
Dan:Yeah.
Maureen:Probably so he could build a hotel.
Dan:He already has a hotel in Turkey.
Maureen:Or, you know, whatever if is that he's doing there.
Dan:Yeah, basically Trump had a call on Sunday night, right? Not long ago. With the president of Turkey, I don't know if he's a president, the head of Turkey. And then tweeted out right after, "All right, we're leaving Syria. Turkey's just going to do whatever they want to do." Because the corner between Syria and Turkey and Northern Iraq and all of this is ...
Maureen:Well this is over a week ago because it was in My Great and Unmatched Wisdom.
Dan:I literally, Maureen, oh it was, you're right. I no longer have a sense of time. Time is just a blur now. It is just one thing into the next.
Maureen:Which I think is probably even a healthy way of looking at time because time is a construct. So maybe we're helping ourselves.
Dan:It's great. But the point being-
Maureen:That felt very fascitis, Dan.
Dan:Trump basically gave Turkey the go ahead, literally gave Turkey the go ahead to do whatever they wanted.
Maureen:And they did.
Dan:Everyone was like, "What the fuck? There is going to be a fucking slaughter now." And now there is a fucking slaughter.
Maureen:Yeah, it's pretty fucking horrible.
Dan:It is horrible. It has at least given some Republican senators, especially, a moment where they are like, this is not good. But it also sort of under [crosstalk 00:44:16].
Maureen:That's the first sign of a break.
Dan:Yeah. I mean it's really a sign of a break but they don't seem to be ... Either they have boxed their feelings about Turkey into everything and/or they are not moving to really do much. They're sort of giving a sense of we don't like this. But they aren't giving a sense of and so.
Dan:But the most interesting thing to me and where it all wraps up together is today it seems like the new White House defense is just to say, "Trump didn't give a green light to Turkey. Vice President Pence was just saying it." You know, you sort of heard this over and over again. When all of us saw the Tweet that literally gave the green light to Turkey. And this is the same thing with his defense against the impeachment, the phone call between himself and Ukrainian president Alanski that's at the center of the impeachment inquiry. His defense is, "Everyone's mischaracterizing this call. It was perfect. There was no problem with the call. The whistle blower's saying that it's something that isn't true, Adam Shiff is saying something that isn't true, and you know that because we released the transcript and it's perfect." And yet, what the whistle blower says is actually backed up by the transcript. What Shiff has been saying is backed up by the transcript and yet, simply saying no the transcript clears me. The line of defense at this point is entirely gas lighting but it's gas lighting on things that we can actually see and know that no, that isn't right?
Maureen:Dan, he's got a lot of stuff coming at him from a lot of directions.
Dan:Yes.
Maureen:Oh, side note, this is not about Trump. Okay, hold it. Hold it. [inaudible 00:46:25]. Okay, it's in my pocket now. He's got a lot of stuff coming at him from a lot of directions. He's got his tax return thing, the impeachment. When you do as many crimes and shitty things, you're standing in front of the dam and you're noticing little spurts of water all over the place. And he's got a lot to worry about. He appears to be in mental and physical decline. And I think that as they smell his fear and weakness, they will all do a Julius Caesar. Like a metaphorical-
Dan:Wow. These are bold statements Maureen Johnson.
Maureen:But it's like [inaudible 00:47:16], they will all jump and the metaphorical Julius Caesar where they will all stab. They'll gang up and stab.
Dan:I think that before we get to Julius Caesar, I think there's going to be a real concerted effort to roll this all up to Giuliani. But I think that is ...
Maureen:It'll be a magical sound of what a bus makes when it goes over Rudy Giuliani.
Dan:What does that sound like. It's got to sound a lot like a rubber chicken getting squeezed.
Maureen:That brought me real pleasure. It brought me real pleasure.
Dan:Anyway, Maureen, we are recording this on Tuesday, the 15th of October, tonight are the Democratic debates.
Maureen:Goddamn it, Dan.
Dan:Yeah. So you are listening to this Says Who, then in a post debate world. We are talking in a pre-debate world.
Maureen:I have to watch it don't I, Dan?
Dan:Yes, you do have to watch it because Maureen Johnson, for our Town Watch paper on supporters, we will be recording a post debate reaction episode tomorrow morning and that will be exclusive for Town Watch members. But Maureen Johnson, let's get to the Patrion stuff. Let's turn this around. Let us turn this ship right around because as bleak as things may be, there's a shining beacon of light in our lives that is called Says Whovia.
Maureen:And Says Whovia, we definitely do have a weeping square but there's also a dance party square. We have free unlimited veg chili night, just hang out, learn square dancing is something we're doing. Quilting. We're starting quilting.
Dan:I love it. I love it. [crosstalk 00:49:20]. So a year ago, pretty much to the day, a year ago almost to the day, I think it was October 17 last year, me and you had a meeting prior to that and we discussed what we had been doing for the two years of Says Who and what we would do moving forward. And one of the questions was, you know what? We seem like we've got a bunch of people that like this, maybe we should start a Patrion to help cover some of the costs that go into making the show and just to be able to send people some cool stuff and things like that. So we did, Maureen.
Dan:And I think that our expectation was that we would get some people, we would be able to cover the modest costs that go into it. And we could make some stickers and some pins and send people some books and it would be super fun. But holy cow, it has been amazing.
Maureen:It really has been.
Dan:It has been way more than what we expected. And while we have done some awesome things, like the Town Watch, I think there are 28 episodes of Town Watch only content at this point over the last year, we've sent out a ton of wedgie the wedge salad pins, we've sent out a bunch of stickers. But Maureen Johnson, me and you had another meeting.
Maureen:We did.
Dan:And we're ready to bring Says Who to the next level.
Maureen:So shall we get into it?
Dan:Let's get into it.
Maureen:All citizens of Says Whovia.
Dan:That's everyone at the $1 and up level.
Maureen:You're going to get access to some new stuff on our Patrion which is actually things that we're posting more often, just stuff you can read. We'll just check in a lot more.
Dan:Yeah, back in the day you might call it a blog. But it's just going to be things that we're doing, thoughts that we have. I am planning on posting a little bit of yogurt making video, because that is my big Says Who You thing. But there will be just stuff for you.
Maureen:And Dan just picked out a whole bunch of video equipment for me and is sending it to my house so I can shoot some videos. He got me a little lighting rig and a good microphone that goes on the phone and lots of good stuff.
Maureen:Now if you've been a $2 supporter, $2 and up and you've been at that support level for at least four months, we'll be sending you a little sticker surprise.
Dan:Yeah, I don't even want to give it away.
Maureen:Nope. You're just getting a little something.
Dan:Yeah, just a little thank you for supporting. If you join at the $2 level you get a Says Who sticker and now we're re-upping with another sticker.
Maureen:New design.
Dan:And it showed up yesterday morning.
Maureen:Is it good?
Dan:It's good.
Maureen:I'm really happy about this one.
Dan:It made me laugh all over again when I saw it.
Maureen:Great. For $5 a month Town Watch, you'll be getting Town Watch content more frequently, probably about every other week, including videos from Amy Carter Chu. Dr. Carter Chu, the Doctor's In, when the video equipment gets here. So she can start giving you advice.
Dan:Yes. Maureen Johnson, Town Watch has certainly been the most active level and has gotten the most stuff. But we acknowledge that Town Watch recordings dropped off a bit over the summer when I was traveling and you were writing and yeah. We are committing to getting Town Watch recordings up on the fairly regular and then supplementing it with some other bonus things like Amy Carter Chu videos because for those of you that don't know, Amy Carter Chu, the foul mouthed Chu of Amy Carter is actually a puppet that lives in your house.
Maureen:She's not a puppet. She's real and she is a therapist.
Dan:For $10 a month supporters, Maureen, all of whom got a pin of our mascot, Wedgie the Wedge Salad, if you've been supporting for at least four months, we are going to commission a map of Says Whovia and we are going to mail that to you at a later date. Because we haven't actually commissioned it yet, as opposed to the stickers which will come to you soon.
Maureen:Yeah, stickers are done. Got to get the map maker.
Dan:And then later on from that, maybe even another pin, we'll see. If you've been supporting at the $25 level, you've got some free books. Now one note, it has been you get your choice of Maureen Johnson books. It turns out that is a thing that is a logistics nightmare so we're going to settle on one book. But you will get, if you join up then. But if you have been supporting at that level, we know you got your books but we want to send you something else. We are going to send you a special coping box.
Maureen:Yep. We're going to make a couple coping boxes. So if you've been supporting us at $25 or more for a while, we're going to send you something.
Dan:Yep. And for our $50 Mainstreet Mogul level where you get an ad on Says Who, you haven't heard a lot of ads on Says Who, we have bettered our workflow so those will actually show up.
Maureen:Yeah, part of the problem was that we're both ... We try our best but this is just us. And because of your contributions, we now have ... It gives Dan a little more time to ... Like Dan's got a workflow thing now that he's doing and the equipment and just some stuff to help us do the jobs.
Dan:Yeah, exactly.
Maureen:So it's been hugely helpful. So this is a community sponsored project. We like that part.
Dan:Yeah. It's amazing. I mean it is truly every week, when we say Says Who is brought to you by you, it is magic to me that that is possible.
Maureen:It is absolutely brought to you by you.
Dan:And we sure thank you from the very bottom of our heart. And if you are a backer, there will be some more stuff heading your way, like we just said. If you want to be a backer, join up at Patrion.com/sayswho. There is already stuff waiting for you. And then more stuff if you hang around.
Maureen:I mean, we hope you like it. We think you will.
Dan:We think you will.
Maureen:Yeah.
Dan:We think you will. You know, other things to like Maureen, our theme music is performed by Ted Leo.
Maureen:I'm excited about making these coping boxes.
Dan:I know. I know. And our logo was designed by Darth.
Maureen:Like a candle. I like a candle. Some bath salts but not the kind that make you eat your neighbor's face.
Dan:That would be good. You can contact us @sayswhopodcast on Twitter. You can email at hey ... Continue your thought.
Maureen:Nothing. Go on.
Dan:Okay. Hey@sayswhopodcast.com. That's H-E-Y. Join the discussion on Facebook at /group/sayswhovians. Our Facebook group is moderated by Janice Dillard. And Maureen, we have talked about so much that we can't even talk about how many people are posting and sharing about their Says Who You work on Facebook but you've got to go check it out because it is wild how many people are involved in sharing things that they are doing.
Maureen:We took the puppy for a long walk in Central Park. We're like let's not watch the news, let's just go directly to Central Park and walk the puppy. And we did. It was beautiful and sunny.
Dan:I love it. I love it. You can spread the word, subscribe and please leave reviews and stars on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts and you can join us October 23 for our next episode. And Maureen, shortly after that, October 26 and 27th you will be in Austin, Texas at the Texas Book Festival. And then a month later, November 22, you will be at the Miami Book Fair.
Maureen:Oh my God, Dan. I'm going to Texas next week.
Dan:Yeah you are.
Maureen:I cannot ...
Dan:My God, that's next week?
Maureen:That's the end of next week.
Dan:Time doesn't mean anything anymore.
Maureen:And then the week after that I think I'm going to LA for the premier.
Dan:That's exciting.
Maureen:Dan, this is all ... It's a little a lot.
Dan:It's more than a little a lot. It's a lot, lot.
Maureen:But I mean, I'm going to Texas and I'm going to LA, which I guess Austin and LA, which means one thing, Dan.
Dan:Warmth?
Maureen:Tacos. I mean I get a combination of an Austin taco experience and an LA taco experience.
Dan:Those are the two best taco places on the planet.
Maureen:Is that your ideal combo?
Dan:Yeah. If I was infinitely wealthy, I would fly to Austin for breakfast tacos, get on a plane and fly to LA for the rest of the day tacos.
Maureen:I've never had a breakfast taco.
Dan:What?
Maureen:I don't eat eggs or meat.
Dan:The eggs thing, yeah. There's that.
Maureen:Oh they'll definitely make a vegan version though. It'll have like a vegan scramble.
Dan:I'm sure. I am sure that there is a whole vegan taco joint in Austin, Texas.
Maureen:I bet it's pretty tasty.
Dan:I ate at a vegan ice cream place in Austin, Texas and it was amazing.
Maureen:Oh well, vegan ice cream is just ice cream. I mean it is, Dan.
Dan:Just ice cream.
Maureen:If you serve people ... That's the nice thing. If you serve people vegan ice cream or baked goods, baked goods you almost definitely can't tell the difference. And ice cream is like, it can be a little harder but it's largely the same. But say you can't get to LA or Austin and you want an experience of a breakfast taco. So what you can do is sign up at Patrion.sayswho/blueapron/patrion and we'll send you a box with one of my-
Dan:No we're not. This is not a thing.
Maureen:Dan, listen to me. One of my recipes will be in the coping box. A potato, pineapple and it's just enough ingredients with lots of packaging so that you can make one meal for $90.
Dan:No. We're not mailing food. We're not mailing food.
Maureen:In the new collaboration between Blue Apron and Says Who-
Dan:No.
Maureen:Called Says Blue.
Dan:No. There's nothing. That is not a thing.
Maureen:Says Blue.
Dan:No. This was all going so well.
Maureen:Or Who Apron.
Dan:I'm so tired.
Maureen:Oh my God, Says Blue or Who Apron, Dan. Those are both genius.
Dan:No.
Maureen:Dan, Says Blue, Who Apron.
Dan:No.
Maureen:How have I never seen that before? Who Apron. Oh I'm brilliant. Oh my God, I'm so smart.
Dan:I'm so tired.
Maureen:I am so smart and sometimes I don't even know how smart I am.
Dan:I'm just so exhausted.
Maureen:They're both perfect. I've been doing this all night.
Dan:It's like every day I punish myself.
Maureen:Dan. I just get better and better.
Dan:Okay. From my basement in Chicago, I'm Dan Sincer.
Maureen:From my mind palace-
Dan:Oh boy.
Maureen:Of genius ideas that just don't quit. Dan. Who Apron.
Dan:No, just say your name.
Maureen:Which one is better? Says Blue or Who Apron? You have to choose.
Dan:Who Apron.
Maureen:Yeah, I know, right? They're both good but one is a little bit better.
Dan:Yeah.
Maureen:I'm Maureen Johnson.
Dan:There you go. Yeah. This has been Says Who.
Maureen:Yeah it has been. Say Who Apron.
Dan:Yeah.
Maureen:I love myself.
Dan:Oh God.