Let's talk about impeachment. Let's talk about Brexit. Let's talk about Mitt Romney's alter ego. Let's talk about George and Kellyanne Conway. Let's talk about riding horses across the hull of a star destroyer.
Howdy, partner. Dan and Maureen are just riding around on some space horses, russlin’ up some news. Lots of news going on, lots of talk around the saloon.
But first, Maureen is traveling a lot! Not right now, but soon she’s going to that there Los Angeles. Dan has a new computer, so that is also very exciting. This means he can keep up with all things impeachment without his computer catching on fire. And there is a lot of impeachment news. There’s a fake French connection, an outright confession, and lots of bullshit from up there on Bullshit Mountain. And in England, Brexit twists and turns.
But Dan has one thing on his mind: space horses.
And Maureen makes a surprise appearance with America’s favorite couple.
Come on down and sit a spell with us, and we’ll tell you all about it.
***
Dan's tracking impeachment news and sending out updates every day. Sign up at impeachment.fyi
Maureen's new book The Vanishing Stair is OUT NOW. NOW!
Support Says Who and become a citizen of SaysWhovia by joining our Patreon today! You really can join for just a dollar. Or more if you want!
Your Intrepid Hosts: Maureen Johnson and Dan Sinker
Our awesome theme is courtesy of Ted Leo
We love Darth
Dan: I'm talking to you through the new computer, Maureen.
Maureen: Oh, Dan, I love it.
Dan: Hey Sayswhovians, this computer was made possible by you, and this podcast is made possible by you, by supporting at patreon.com/sayswho. And we will run it down a little more at the end of episode, but we are one year, one year into this Patreon, and we have a bunch of gifts for people, some of which have already gone out. And boy, you have helped us and we hope that we can repay that with some cool stuff heading your way. Find out more at the end of the episode, patreon.com/sayswho.
Maureen: Hey, books. Truly Devious, read it. You'll want to have read it, because in January the last book of the trilogy is coming out. You don't want to be like, "Here I am. I don't even know what's going on." Read Truly Devious, read The Vanishing Stair, read The Hand on the Wall or not, I don't care. I don't run your life. Do whatever you want. Books.
Dan: Hey, this is Dan. If you are-
Maureen: Oh my God, more. Just what is this? Who are we?
Dan: I mean just busy, we're busy people, like a Richard Scarry Busytown character, I am pulling in, in my pickle car to tell you about impeachment.fyi.
Maureen: Yay, pickle car!
Dan: I love those books so much.
Maureen: Oh, me too.
Dan: Our four-year-old is super into it, and man, that is some genius shit, that dude. That guy was on another level.
Maureen: Oh, those books made me so happy when I was a kid.
Dan: For real, for real.
Maureen: Just go in if you have a moment today, grab a Richard Scarry book, the library or book store. Just look it and just feel warm and cozy all over.
Dan: Yeah, seriously.
Maureen: Pickle car.
Dan: Seriously, that little worm in a hat, I love that dude.
Maureen: Yeah, oh yeah.
Dan: Anyway, if you want to keep up with news about the impeachment, but you don't want to be refreshing Twitter every five seconds, I have got you. You go to impeachment.fyi you get a daily roundup of impeachment news posted in the evening, so you can go, "Okay, I understand the parameters of this shitshow," and then go on with your life. If you subscribe, it just comes into your email, and then you really don't have to do anything, impeachment.fyi, I got you.
Maureen: Also, coming on Netflix, November 8th, Let It Snow, the movie.
Dan: Look at this, there's even more. Go, give it a whole one. Jesus, yes.
Maureen: That's it, that's the whole thing.
Dan: Yes. I'm about to type it into the notes, Goddammit.
Maureen: That's the whole thing.
Dan: No, look, it's in the notes. Maureen, Let It Snow-
Maureen: He's actually typing.
Dan: Netflix.
Maureen: Yeah, I just said this.
Dan: November 8.
Maureen: Literally just said it.
Dan: A heartwarming comedy set in the cold of the winter. Everyone loves Christmas. Let It Snow, there. Okay I wrote it all now you just read the copy.
Maureen: Maureen Let It Snow Netflix November 8th a heart warming comedy set in the cold of the winter everyone loves Christmas, Let It Snow.
Dan: That was super natural. That was great. That was awesome, print it.
Maureen: Thank you. I feel like I'm going to be really good at this... Hey Dan. Well because-
Dan: Maureen, I am excited to talk to you about the biggest news of the week. Let's do this.
Maureen: All right. Well as I was just about to ask you, Dan, I know that you've been running impeachment.fyi, and therefore you have your finger on the pulse of all current events and you can just-
Dan: I do.
Maureen: Good. And so I really want to get a summary of... well not a summary, I want the highlights and then I want a break down, and then I want a summary as well of the biggest-
Dan: I got you.
Maureen: Okay. It sounds like.
Dan: Yes. Go ahead. Just finish. Ask the question. I'll tell you.
Maureen: Okay. Well, what's the biggest news of the week?
Dan: In the Star Wars trailer they're riding fucking space horses on the hull of a goddamn Star Destroyer, Maureen. That is the biggest news of the week. How did they do it? Are they all wearing some sort of oxygen mask? I don't know. Is the Star Destroyer so big that they have their own gravity field? I don't know.
Maureen: Dan, Dan-
Dan: Space horses, Maureen... space horses.
Maureen: Yes... Welcome to Says Who, a podcast that isn't a podcast.
Dan: It's a coping strategy, I am Dan Sinker.
Maureen: And I am Dan Sinker.
Dan: No, you're Maureen Johnson.
Maureen: Well, I've heard it both ways.
Dan: You are beloved YA author, Maureen Johnson. Co-author of, and star of the new Netflix movie, Let It Snow.
Maureen: Yes, I am a co-author or as I will look forward to... Dan, it's good. It's good, it's exciting, it's great.
Dan: It is exciting. I'm excited. You are just in constant motion now. I feel like our new game is simply, where is Maureen this time?
Maureen: Yeah. I'm certainly-
Dan: But I think the answer is just you're at home right now.
Maureen: I'm at home right now and the puppy's next to me.
Dan: That's boring, go somewhere. We got a whole new game where you're going places and you're just at home, that ruins the game is all I'm saying.
Maureen: No, I'm just here with the puppy. She's sleeping. She's all curled up. She's so snugly.
Dan: The puppy is a big storyline from this summer Maureen. We need to punch it up.
Maureen: Well, she's almost... Dan, she's eight and a half months old now.
Dan: That's just a dog now, it's not even a puppy.
Maureen: Don't say she's just a dog. She's still a baby girl.
Dan: But I'm just saying, she's dog size now.
Maureen: She still eats puppy food.
Dan: Wow. That's just dog food with a different name.
Maureen: That's not true, that has extra nutrients in it. She's still a puppy, she eats dog food... So I mean puppy food, goddammit. Anyway, it does seem like I'm traveling a lot. I did have a moment in JFK the other day where I was like, wasn't I just here? Did I get something from Shake Shack? You just start to get that weird deja vu where-
Dan: I have had periods of travel where it's, I literally don't know what is going on anymore, because you're just traveling from like thing that looks just like another thing into a thing that looks like another thing. You're staying at a hotel that smells just like every other hotel. It can get hard.
Maureen: Yeah. I mean, I'm happy, but it's... I realized that if given the choice, I'm like, being at home is great.
Dan: Yeah. I have radically downshifted my travel in the last couple of years and I got to say it ain't bad, it's not bad. Being in that constant motion, it's not good for your body, for sure.
Maureen: It's not good for the environment either, all this flying around that we do, it's real bad.
Dan: It's true. Anyway, you're going to be 40 different places in the next three weeks.
Maureen: Yeah. I'm going to Texas on Friday, to Austin where I'm going to have taco.
Dan: Yeah, you are. Yeah you are, some Sayswhovians came through with some vegan breakfast tacos for you.
Maureen: I'll definitely try that because I always get... I always do feel a little bit like I'm missing out when you see those kind of scrambled things. And I'm like, I'd like that, that looks good. So I'm going to try that. And I only have one event there. I have one panel Dan, so I'm flying to Austin to do one signing, which happens sometimes. So then the rest of the time you're just kind of there. But then I-
Dan: Bring your swimsuit and swim in the big ass pool thing that they got.
Maureen: The Barton Springs Pool.
Dan: Yeah, that's it.
Maureen: I timed out the time in a lift to get to the Barton Springs Pool to see if I could do it, get there in the morning and come back. But the thing is, you got to do your hair. So you got to come back and make sure everything's dry and ready to go. But I think I can do it.
Dan: Just show up like you were in the pool, they'll love it.
Maureen: I have done-
Dan: soaking wet with a towel.
Maureen: I once, on one book tour, they put us for reasons unknown to me, because there was a group of us, they put us up in Atlanta at the Four Seasons, or at the Ritz, I don't know why. I think they got some crazy good rate because that is not what normally happens. Trust me, that is not how it normally happens. But they put us at the Ritz and we were all like. Because I think it's like the weird Atlanta suburban Ritz. Yeah. There's like a kind of suburban Ritz.
Dan: It's like the Ritz by the airport.
Maureen: It's really nice. It's a Ritz but it's just sort of in the suburbs of Atlanta. And I was like really enjoying the bathrobe and I thought, what if I just wore this bathrobe to the event at Little Shop of Stories? And I did, because it's real cozy. And I told everybody, I'm like, "Look, this bathrobe was great. I thought you'd all-" And everyone's like, you did the right thing. It was a real snugly.
Dan: Same, just show up straight from the pool, got a little algae clinging to you. People will love it.
Maureen: I have always-
Dan: When you stay at Ritz. Does the song Puttin' On the Ritz just get stuck in your head the whole time? Because it's already in my head and all you did was talk about it... Yeah, that.
Maureen: I desperately want to swing in the Barton... swim in the Barton Springs. It's a giant natural pool in Austin. I think it's like-
Dan: It's a two acres long swimming pool.
Maureen: Is it spring fed or is it?
Dan: Yeah, it's spring fed. There's a bunch of different... We went there, we went there this summer when we were in Austin and talked about it on mine and Janice's podcast, The Hitch. But it is, yeah, it's spring fed. It's sort of in the midst of a river that is a spring fed river and it is like a swimming pool but also it is like a quarry kind of thing. The bottom is natural stone. There are sides of it that are just sort of like cliff sides. And then there are sides of it that are like concretes swimming pool sides. And it is very cold because it is spring fed.
Dan: It was one of those moments where you're like, this is the life. You're just like standing there with like a few hundred other people. Everyone's having fun. There's a nice little view of downtown Austin on one side of it. The whole thing kind of smells like real water and you slip on rocks cause they're covered with algae and it's just amazing.
Maureen: Yeah. I love to swim and I get to do it not very often. And swimming in natural waters is just one of those things in life that I just wanted to-
Dan: You got to do it, you got to do it.
Maureen: I feel like if we just all did that with all the time, we'd be better people.
Dan: Well, that's why everyone's so good in Austin.
Maureen: That does seem that way.
Dan: Because they do. Yeah, they are, they really are. But Maureen do it, and call it your Says Who You for that for the day.
Maureen: Dan, I've done other Says Who Yous.
Dan: Have you?
Maureen: Meditating-
Dan: People listening that don't know what the fuck we're talking about right now, Says Who You is what, an initiative, what do you call it Maureen, the thing?
Maureen: I'm choking on coffee. Hold on.
Dan: Oh good. And that was the end of Maureen Johnson.
Maureen: Well it was good run.
Dan: Let us all remember our friend Maureen Johnson.
Maureen: I'm better now.
Dan: Oh good. All right. Says Who You is a thing, an initiative, a thing that we came up with what a month plus ago, where basically it was like, you know what, people we need to look away from our fucking phones every now and then. We need to reconnect with the fact that we don't actually need to be refreshing the news every three seconds. The news does not change that much actually from second to second. And we need to just put them down. And you said, let's just say 15 minutes a day of conscious looking away. Not just simply, "Oh yeah, I was pooping for some time and I left my phone in the other room." It doesn't count.
Maureen: You got to bring in... Oh Dan just-
Dan: Well, it's just who I am, Maureen. Anyway, and it has been remarkable and amazing. What have you been up to Maureen?
Maureen: Well, I have practiced not... also not listening to your podcast for a short time because, as my husband pointed out, I always have earbuds in and I can never hear him because I'm always listening to something.
Dan: Oh no, you're like my 14-year-old.
Maureen: Kind of.
Dan: He's always sitting around and I'm like, "Hey man, what's up?" And then he doesn't answer. And then finally he'll be like, "Huh." And look up and take the thing out of his ear.
Maureen: Yeah, just-
Dan: "Sorry, I was listening to the McElroy brothers."
Maureen: Is that what your son sounds like, he's a Muppet?
Dan: No, not at all. He's a Muppet. "Hi guys, I'm listening to the McElroy brothers again."
Maureen: Oh my God. Dan, now I'm interested. Now I'm interested. What if we find out all along that you don't have children, but you do have two puppets that we're like, Dan... no one wants to say anything.
Dan: I have a Says Who You confession, Maureen, I feel bad about it. I need to absolve myself of this sin. I had been getting very good about barely looking at my phone before I went to bed and reading a book and I plowed through multiple books. And then I launched impeachment.fyi. And Maureen, I have to confess that I have been looking at my phone all the way to the point that I go to sleep now. And I don't feel good about it but I feel like I need to confess it because it's important to know that sometimes you fall off that wagon.
Maureen: Yeah but it's okay. It's still an illness that those muscled memories are there Dan so it kind of... they make us want to.
Dan: I am still making yogurt though, I'm making a lot of yogurt. Maureen Johnson, people have been sharing their Says Who You activities on Facebook. And I am not on Facebook but Janice, who is my wonderful wife, and is the moderator of our Facebook group. She has been reporting back and here is an interesting thing, Maureen. There are multiple people over multiple weeks posting photos of themselves, riding carousels. And it is wonderful and amazing and this is the thought that I had, so a little bit later in the podcast, we are going to talk about the map that we are getting made for some patron backers, the map of Sayswhovia. And one of the things that we've been tasked by the illustrators to come up with landmarks. And I have realized something Maureen, there is a carousel in Sayswhovia and any carousel in the world, when you ride it, you are connected to the carousel in Sayswhovia?
Maureen: Yes.
Dan: Yes. It's like a carousel vortex into the-
Maureen: So whenever you want to go to Sayswhovia, you can ride a carousel.
Dan: Exactly, and you're there.
Maureen: Failing that, just spin.
Dan: Failing spinning, Just straddle an animal.
Maureen: What?
Dan: That came out weird.
Maureen: No Dan maybe-
Dan: I mean just because you're riding an animal when you're on a carousel, that's what I meant.
Maureen: You know what, I would let it go, I would just... I'd let it go. I'd walk away. I think you should walk away from it.
Dan: All right, I'm walking. I'm walking away. You know what I'm walking towards Maureen, our show notes. That's what I'm walking towards. And Maureen Johnson, we're going to talk about impeachment in a moment. We're going to talk about Brexit in a moment too because I you to catch me up. But first we need to talk about Mitt Romney.
Maureen: Why? No, I know why, I know why.
Dan: Well because a bad side effect the impeachment is suddenly people are talking about Mitt Romney again, as if his mild critiques of Donald Trump are somehow him climbing the walls of justice or something. But, normally I'd just try to ignore it but this week it paid off because he gives an interview to McKay Coppins at The Atlantic. And it's one of those like, here's this guy who can stand up for Trump, kind of bullshit interviews that you see about someone or other every now and then and it never actually pans into anything.
Dan: But in the article, it mentions the fact that he follows the comings and goings of Donald Trump on Twitter through a secret Twitter account, Maureen Johnson. He says, "What do they call me, a lurker to keep tabs on the political conversation." "I won't give you the name of it," he says, "but I'm following 668 people." Which is a very weird detail. So Ashley Feinberg, who is a national goddamn hero, she discovered Comey's secret Twitter account, she has discovered Ivanka's secret Spotify sex jams. She is truly a remarkable person when it comes to sleuthing online. She basically was like, "Oh, alright. Challenge accepted asshole." and found his secret Twitter account. She was able to deduce it backwards via various Romney children and that sort of thing, and finally figured out who it was. The name on the account, Maureen, is Pierre Delecto, which just feels like a real gift.The Atlantic called him to confirm and he simply responded, [French 00:20:07].
Maureen: No, I don't... It's [French 00:20:11].
Dan: I don't know French, Maureen.
Maureen: That would be my house.
Dan: You could have just fucking corrected me instead of sitting there... I don't know.
Maureen: I just sat there for a-
Dan: I've always just assumed that French is a fake language, so.
Maureen: It is a fake language, it's not real. France isn't real.
Dan: Anyway, Maureen Johnson, Pierre Delecto, Pierre Delecto. So first of all, you know inside Mitt Romney's head, Pierre Delecto has a real-
Maureen: Mustache?
Dan: Yeah. Just a real like deep... he has a deep history. I bet you Pierre Delecto swears inside Mitt Romney's head. I bet he says like, damn or hell.
Maureen: I think he looks like Pierce Brosnan.
Dan: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. What novel is Pierre Delecto the hero of?
Maureen: Madame Bovary 2, More Madame More Bovary, The Bovary's Ovaries. There you go.
Dan: Yikes.
Maureen: Madame B-Ovaries, I don't know, I'm working on real time.
Dan: You're just workshopping it right now.
Maureen: I'm not there yet, I'm not there yet.
Dan: No, it's all right. None of us are there yet anymore Maureen.
Maureen: None of us are there yet.
Dan: We're all certainly off from there, always.
Maureen: It's fine.
Dan: Anyway Maureen, that just felt like a gift in this week, Pierre Delecto.
Maureen: Well, it's good to know that they're out there working hard for us and standing up... publicly standing up for what's right. They're so many of them.
Dan: Things are great. The good thing is though Maureen, as we have discussed before, I actually was born in England and thusly have British citizenship. And I always liked to think about the fact that I have an escape plan because everything is great in England, right?
Maureen: Oh Dan.
Dan: See how I set you up there, see how I set you up?
Maureen: I mean, I saw it.
Dan: I just tossed that ball right to you.
Maureen: Well, we haven't had a Brexit update for probably a week or so because things went a little quiet. Things were happening but like little mumbly grumbly things just under... Imagine just the thin layer of soil on the earth just rippling slightly. Well, when we last left you the clock was ticking away for a deadline of the 31st of October. And there was something in place called The Ben Act, which said, if there was no deal by the 19th of October then Boris Johnson was required by law to go to the EU and asked for an extension, which he said that rather than do that he would rather be dead in a ditch.
Maureen: And he kept saying this weird riddle that people would say, "Are you going to do it?" And he would say "No". And then they'd say, "You're going to break the law then because that's the law." And he would say, "No." And they'd say, "Well, are you going to do it?" And he'd say, "We're going to leave by the 31st of October." And they'd say, "How are you going to do it? Are you going to follow the law?" And he'd say "Yes." And they said, "Are you going to send a letter?" And he'd say, "No." And this would go on like a terrible carousel.
Maureen: So no one knew what the fuck was going to happen. So in a week what was happening with that little ripple under the soil is that he went to Brussels and he got a new deal. He actually came back with a deal. Now, what's in the deal? There in lies the question, because Theresa May had a deal. She tried to get it voted three times. Everyone's like, it's a terrible deal. And he came back holding it over his head like, "I have a deal." Except it's a shit deal with a lot of questions in it that's basically kind of the same as Theresa May's deal and no one likes it. But he said I brought-
Dan: Yeah, it seemed... The little bit of analysis that I read on it was the deal was a lot of like... and about customs, well, we'll figure that out.
Maureen: We'll figure that out. Yeah. I mean it's a deal that doesn't... All of these things say that over the course of... in time we'll work out what to do with this other stuff. I think one of the things it did was move the Irish border to the middle of the sea.
Maureen: Yeah, so no one liked it, but he came back with it and he was shaking it like, "Hey, everyone's got to do this now." Now he was also the one that helped shoot down Theresa May's deal that... So he takes it to parliament and they actually convened on Saturday, they don't normally do and everyone was like, "Oh, they're going to vote on the deal," but what actually happened Dan, because this is very twisty and turny, everything with Brexit is like but then this happened instead. What actually happened was that they voted to pass something called the Letwin Amendment, which says-
Dan: The who? The what? The Letwin?
Maureen: Yeah. It's named after Oliver Letwin, who's I guess... sorry, not I guess but he is an MP. And it says there can't be a vote on the deal until parliament has, A had time to read this motherfucker, which is like 600 pages long or something, and process it and then pass the legislation around it that would make it possible. So you can't just come back, drop this 600 page deal on our heads and say, now just do it.
Dan: You know the middle of that deal is just pure Lorem Ipsum.
Maureen: Yeah, it's a full ream of paper.
Dan: There's just like 400 pages that's just-
Maureen: So they said, "No, we can't do this today." By doing that you can't vote on the deal. That's essentially the [inaudible] parliament saying, you legally can't vote on this deal until we've had a chance to do all this other stuff. So this meant that technically Boris had failed to get the deal passed by October 19th. So he was required as I said before by law to go and send a letter to the EU asking for an extension, the one he said he'd rather be dead in a ditch than do, that he wouldn't do. So what... did he do it Dan?
Dan: Wait, is he dead in a ditch?
Maureen: Here's what happened-
Dan: Dead in a ditch.
Maureen: He did send the letter. In fact, he sent three letters.
Dan: Well that's three times as many letters as anyone expected? Wow, what a commitment to letter sending.
Maureen: The first letter, his letter, the one asking for the extension, he didn't sign it because he's a messy bitch who loves drama. So that's letter one. The second, was another letter from him that said he thought the first letter was a bad idea. And then there was a third letter, a cover letter from the EU ambassador... sorry the UK ambassador to the EU, that said they also thought that that letter was a bad idea. So he technically did it but then he sent all this stuff around that was like but don't do it. So he technically did it. So the EU gets this pile of shit that they must be like, 'What, why are they so... why are they like this?
Maureen: So yesterday, Monday, because we're recording on Tuesday, Boris tried to get a vote on the deal again, but this was rejected by the speaker John Bercow because parliament voted on Saturday, they said, 'You can't do that, we said we're not voting on this until all of this other stuff happens, that we pass this other legislation to get all these things done." So now the plan is that all of these... they're like, "Well, okay then we'll all just stay up for two or three days straight and pass a whole bunch of legislation and then try to vote on this on Thursday." To which everyone's like, "That's a terrible idea." So on Thursday there will be.
Dan: I personally would like to watch like an entire room of surly MPs after three days of not sleeping.
Maureen: Yeah, because that's when you make your best decisions.
Dan: Yeah, and that there's a Mace in the room too.
Maureen: Yeah, you just get to that point-
Dan: Someone could be like, " Only one of us is getting out of there alive."
Maureen: You know that point at around 23, 24 hours when everything has a halo of light around?
Dan: Yes.
Maureen: Yeah. So anyway-
Dan: I went to art school Maureen. I studied video art, so that's why I'm so smart. But I used to do all-nighters because you could sign up for editing rooms and you could spend all Saturday night in an editing room and that also Maureen is why I'm so fun. But I would be so tired by the end of it, sometimes I would drive home. I remember one time I drove home from the editing room and I got to my parking space, I had finally found a parking space near my apartment and I got halfway into the space and I was like, I just have to take a nap. And I fell asleep in my car halfway parked. Don't do that at home kids but that's what's going to happen with these MPs, they're all going to be halfway parked.
Maureen: So Thursday something happens again, the clock is ticking, I mean we're now eight days away and-
Dan: It is so poetically wonderful that this all leads to Halloween, though I guess in England it really should be leading to Guy Fawkes Day, which is only like what, a week later or something.
Maureen: Yes. Remember, remember-
Dan: It seems only fitting that they should extend this deadline out to the day that a guy tried to blow up parliament.
Maureen: Remember, remember the 5th of November Gunpowder treason and plot.
Dan: There it is.
Maureen: Well, now this all definitely seems to be barreling towards a general election. I mean, no one quite knows what's going to happen, best guess, extension, more muddling. And even when they pass this, it's hardly like everything's done, everything's started. It just starts the muddle-
Dan: They're a parliament, why don't they... Why is Boris Johnson still the Prime Minister? Can't they just be like, "Nope, not anymore."
Maureen: Well, because he is the head of the Tory Party.
Dan: But do they still have a majority?
Maureen: They lost their majority by one but they're still the government. Yeah, it's confusing-
Dan: I just figured it out, didn't I? I just blew a hole in England.
Maureen: Well no, I think that... I guess when they assembled the government, they had a mandate to create a government so they created a government. That's the government. So even when you lose one, the government is already in place. It's all been ratified, so they're in place.
Dan: I don't know how it works. All I know is there's a mace.
Maureen: There is a mace, and there's a Black Rod. And that whole thing where Black Rod gets the door shut in her face and oh, it's magical.
Dan: Maureen Johnson, things have not been going much better over on this side of the Atlantic either.
Maureen: Really?
Dan: I know. I know it seems like it's been a chill week, but I need to talk through Mick Mulvaney a little bit. So Mick Mulvaney is the president's chief of staff. He sort of looks like a Harry Potter character that had spent a long time as a weasel or something and now is back as a human. But he had a press conference, Maureen, on Thursday, that was amazing. So first of all, earlier, the thing that precipitated the press conference was the announcement, as we talked about an episode or two ago, that the administration, after a real extensive search had chosen Trump's Doral Miami Golf Course to host the G7.
Maureen: That was this week, wasn't it, that this happened?
Dan: That was just Thursday. That was less than seven days ago. Yeah. And which for all sorts of obvious reasons is not the thing that you're supposed to do if you're a sitting president, is award the summit of seven major world leaders to your golf course. But-
Maureen: Why Dan?
Dan: He did. Well, one might make claims that perhaps it's self-dealing, just people might talk, Maureen. But-
Maureen: Can we just pause on... I know you don't want to, but can I pause on it for one second?
Dan: Yes, please.
Maureen: Just because I don't want the moment to be lost that all of that happened this week.
Dan: It's so funny, just ask.
Maureen: Who doesn't want to go to Miami in June?
Dan: It's nice. It's nice that time of year, who doesn't like a 100% humidity?
Maureen: Can you imagine-
Dan: Every world leader with the frizziest hair?
Maureen: It's going to look like that movie, The Conversation, which is about a surveillance expert. There's going to be microphones just dripping from the walls. There's going to be chandeliers made of microphones, every single person with a fake mustache on. I mean-
Dan: The groundskeeper is going to be like, "I don't know where all of these extra palm trees just came from, but okay." And they all sort of have satellite dishes on the top.
Maureen: You do remember how the reporters that we've spoken to before about how there's no internet security at Mar-a-Lago, none?
Dan: None.
Maureen: Anybody could burst into the-
Dan: And in fact the person from the armed forces that was in charge of securing those comms channels was just arrested for uploading child porn onto a Russian server, so you know.
Maureen: There's that and then they also was-
Dan: There is that.
Maureen: They went to Bedminster and just drove around.
Dan: Did donuts on the golf course. Yeah. It would be like that but Maureen, there are two days transpired and it could have just been a lifetime. So let's go back to the moment when it was happening at Doral, Mick Mulvaney holds a press conference where he is supposed to explain this, the reasoning for why, but it's a press conference. I still don't understand why he held a presser when it's really like... the only information that he needed to impart was what was already in a press release, but he did. And so of course, he was then asked significant and extensive questions about the circumstances surrounding Trump's phone call with Ukraine, which is at the center of the impeachment inquiry.
Dan: And, Maureen Johnson, Mick Mulvaney must've been suddenly hit by a witch's curse where he could not lie. Because over the course of this press conference, he starts just rambling on and on about how there were three reasons the US withheld aid from Ukraine. The first being that they wanted to make sure that other countries were giving them aid as well. The second was that they were concerned about corruption. And the third, straight from Mick Mulvaney's mouth, was that Trump really wanted the Ukrainians to look into the DNC servers. And everyone at the press conference was basically like, "What? What? Wait what?"
Dan: And so then he's like, "Oh yeah, you know, Trump really wanted to know if the Ukrainians knew that where the DNC servers were and so we held up aid for that." And then like a reporter is like, "Okay, so just to clarify here you are describing a quid pro quo right now." And he's like, "Oh yeah, we do that kind of thing all the time. Look, elections matter and now you get politics mixed up with foreign policy. Get over it." It was remarkable, Maureen. If I was an investigator in the house, I would just be like, "I fucking give up." Like what the fuck?
Maureen: You'd break your pen in half.
Dan: You just said it all. Yeah, you just said it all, right? We're pulling in fucking assistant deputy secretaries to the underbelly of the Ukraine, and here you are just holding a press conference and being like, "Yeah, we do that shit all the time."
Maureen: I mean we did that, we did that.
Dan: Oh yeah that? Oh yeah, we definitely did that. Without a doubt, that was the thing we did.
Maureen: Even that, that was the one we did. We did that one.
Dan: That thing too? Yeah.
Maureen: We did that.
Dan: So a few hours later obviously, he starts walking it back, as you might imagine. But it does not stick. And in fact, as mentioned a few Republicans even publicly, Francis Rooney being the biggest one was basically like, "You can't walk that back, this isn't an etch a sketch?" Was the quote, begin to question it, right? And it turns out now from some sort of behind the scenes reporting by the New York Times and others that a bunch of Republicans basically called the White House and were like, "Let me get this straight, I'm fighting people defending you're fucking impeachment, I'm trying to stick up with the bullshit that you're pulling in Syria and now you are also asking me to defend you giving a government contract to yourself? I can't do it. This is one thing too far." And so it turns out that on 10:00 PM on a Saturday night, Trump tweets out that the Doral deal is off, Maureen Johnson.
Maureen: Dan, talk me through your feelings?
Dan: It turns out that all you need is a handful of Republicans to be like, "What the fuck are you doing man?" And he backs off. And the fact that they have not done that for the last three years really puts me in my feelings.
Maureen: Dan, is it that a couple of Republicans just have to do that, or is it also that the real specter of impeachment now follows him like a shadow ghost?
Dan: I think that is true. I think that he has been haunted by this shadow ghost for sure.
Maureen: So there are suddenly now potentially consequences, imagine.
Dan: Yeah, I mean I would... let's not overplay the hand here, they are still by and large backing him, Republicans are, especially in the house, they'd tried to force a censure vote on Adam Schiff last night, they're all playing the game. But it does appear that there is a bridge too far, never seen that before.
Dan: And just to close the circle on Mick Mulvaney, he then went on Fox News Sunday to try to reclarify and was then hit by the same fucking witch's curse where Chris Wallace... This is fucking Fox News, Chris Wallace is basically like, "So, okay man, you made a little woopsie right? Like just come on, walk us through this." And he's all, "Yeah, you know, I did, I misspoke. What I meant to say was that the president talked to me about the DN server a bunch of times. And also he's talked to other people, and he talked to the president of the Ukraine about it, that's what I meant to say." And Chris Wallace is sitting there being like, and then Mick Mulvaney finally catches himself and he's like, "Oh, but none of that was connected to aid."
Maureen: I mean Dan, I-
Dan: You'd be surprised to learn that Mick Mulvaney might be in the doghouse now, is latest reports.
Maureen: Really?
Dan: I know, it's surprising.
Maureen: He's not the dumbest person they've had.
Dan: He's definitely not the dumbest person. I was going to say, but he's also not the smartest. And then I tried to think about who I would even say was the smartest and I don't have an answer.
Maureen: It's difficult. What other things do we know about impeachment?
Dan: Well, over the last week we learned a lot about Giuliani's criming, and just how basically he was running point for the president in Ukraine. And also how many folks at the state department were pretty much ready to plunge a dagger into his back, and were willing to come forward and testify. It was a very interesting week of impeachment. And this week was actually going to be even busier.
Dan: Last week they talked to five people I believe... four people. This week they were supposed to talk to nine, but they just yesterday changed up their whole plan because of the unfortunate passing of Elijah Cummings who was the head of the oversight committee, and now Thursday and Friday they are going to be doing memorials and things like that. And so I think they're only talking to two people now this week. But one of them is today and it's the dude that posted that text that was like, "Everyone knows that what we're doing right now is crazy, right?" So that should be an interesting one.
Maureen: And then with the responses that said, "Call me."
Dan: Yeah, exactly, Call me. And then the second time he did it, the four hours elapsed and then the guy, Sondland, who's the ambassador to the EU, US ambassador to the EU. He then gave this very long explanation for why it was no quid pro quo, but he testified last week in the house and said that that was all dictated by Trump... and that it wasn't necessarily the truth.
Maureen: Where are you right now on the impeachment betting pool?
Dan: Okay Maureen, so we have discussed this at length. I have moved further from feeling like this is a sure thing despite the fact that we have learned significantly more than where we were last week. I do not have a lot of faith that the Democrats are going to be able to successfully pull the trigger on this. And that is based on the fact that while they have gotten some folks to come and testify, they have issued a whole bunch of subpoenas that have simply been ignored by people and they have not yet enforced a single one of them. I will believe that they are serious when they enforce a goddamn subpoena. Until that point, I am unconvinced that this is going to move forward.
Maureen: That they roll up and put Rudy in jail?
Dan: Or fucking fine the goddamn acting director of the office of management and budget. I mean it's not even the biggest dogs in the thing. There are all sorts of weird underlings and shit like that that are just like, "Fuck you assholes I ain't doing shit." And they're just like, "Oh well, they told them we weren't going to be doing shit, so well I guess, we can't do anything."
Maureen: Yeah, I'm ready. We're all ready.
Dan: We're beyond ready. We're beyond ready Maureen, because if this ever happens, we're going to Disney.
Maureen: But then-
Dan: Goddammit-
Maureen: I think you're missing one of the most important pieces of news this week, which happened just last night.
Dan: No, we talked about the Star Wars trailer. Yeah, we talked about the Star Wars trailer, right?
Maureen: No, Dan.
Dan: They ride space horses, Maureen.
Maureen: It's not that.
Dan: Space horses.
Maureen: Last night on Twitter, Dan-
Dan: I want a whole movie about space horses is what I want. Sorry, go on.
Maureen: No, I want you to get it out.
Dan: Space horses. Space horses. Space horses. Space horses. Space horses. Space horses. Space horses. Space horses. Space horses. Space horses. Space horses. I can do this for a really long time. Space horses. Space horses. Space horse. Space horses. Space horses. Space horses. Space horses. Okay. I think I'm done.
Maureen: Last night on Twitter-
Dan: Space horses. One last one.
Maureen: I noticed... Yeah. All right, I happened to be idly scrolling and I noticed something, every once in a while I like to just peek in on Trump, I don't follow him, I just peek over the wall and look what he's doing. And I noticed that he tweeted something dumb, like he does, but then a bot repeated him... I'm sorry, retweeted him. And then he saw the retweet and retweeted it. So he retweeted something that automatically retweets him. So he retweeted himself through this bot, which is already good. But then I took a look at the name on the bot, and that name was DJT bot, Donald Trump's bot. Donald Trump retweeted a bot that retweets him, called Donald Trump's bot. And I said, "That's something." So I took some screenshots and I tweeted it and I thought that's funny. That's about where we're at. But then Dan, something else happened.
Dan: Oh really?
Maureen: A little flash came across, a little, somebody retweeted you. Guess who retweeted me, Dan.
Dan: Me.
Maureen: No.
Dan: That's all I could guess.
Maureen: George Conway, as in-
Dan: Oh no!
Maureen: As in husband of Kellyanne.
Dan: Oh God Maureen, you're in the middle of their weird little sex game now.
Maureen: Trust me, it's not great.
Dan: Oh, gross.
Maureen: So now yours truly, is in the weird mix of the whole Kellyanne and George thing. That doesn't sit right, that doesn't feel good. That doesn't feel good.
Dan: No, it does not.
Maureen: No [foreign language 00:48:56].
Dan: Oh my goodness gracious.
Maureen: Yeah. So yeah, that's nice. That's a good feeling. I don't know how he saw it, but he say he saw it somehow and I got retweeted by George Conway.
Dan: Oh, vomit, grossness.
Maureen: So Kellyanne, for sure, saw it, maybe even Trump's saw it.
Dan: Oh, of course she saw it. And he was like, "Look at what a bad little boy I am."
Maureen: You can feel their eyes on you. Just you feel like, "Ew, we'll talk about this later."
Dan: I do not like their fucking game, Maureen Johnson.
Maureen: Literally. Unsavory.
Dan: It is extremely unsavory. We need to turn this fucking ship around. Says Who is made possible by you, through your support of our-
Maureen: And George and Kellyanne.
Dan: Goddammit. Through your support of our patron at patreon.com/sayswho. And Maureen Johnson, last week we had big Patreon announcements and there is movement on those announcements already. It has been one year and your support has been amazing. And we have added some stuff that people get after some extended support of Says Who. And so now, if you are a $2 an up level giver, after four months you get a second sticker, first sticker goes out right away, second sticker comes four months later. I and my 14 year old son just packed up 300+ of these stickers to folks that had been backing for that long and-
Maureen: And to be fair-
Dan: We send them out.
Maureen: We paid him also.
Dan: We did, we paid him 10 bucks an hour.
Maureen: Yeah, because you know-
Dan: Thanks to your patron money.
Maureen: He shouldn't have to just do that... son... the stickers are great.
Dan: They are exciting and probably they will be showing up in some people's homes even today -
Maureen: I hope I get one.
Dan: As you listen to our words, I need to get something to mail to you still, I'm really bad at that. And if you give, for an extended period of time at the $10 and up level, you will be getting a map of Sayswhovia that we are in the last stages of commissioning an artist to make, and it's pretty exciting.
Maureen: Yeah, I think it's really going to be frameable.
Dan: Yes. Oh, without a doubt.
Maureen: It's decent.
Dan: Without a doubt. Yeah. It's going to be a good time. And if you give for four months or more at the $25 level in addition to all that stuff, you get a coping box packed with love and filled with love from me and Maureen.
Maureen: I can't wait to do this.
Dan: Lots of good stuff, plus all the rest of the stuff. patreon.com/sayswho, get signed up now.
Maureen: I've always wanted to design a box and I may be making a box for something else but I just really want to make this coping box. I like creating things like that, it makes me happy.
Dan: It's going to be good. It's going to be a good time.
Maureen: That's very much my wheelhouse.
Dan: It's going to be a good time. Also a good time, our theme music is performed by Ted Leo. Ted Leo is always a good time.
Maureen: It's true.
Dan: And our logo was designed by Darth.
Maureen: Love you Darth.
Dan: We love you Darth. You can contact us @sayswhopodcast on Twitter, you can email at hey, that is H-E-Y @sayswhopodcast.com. You can join the discussion on Facebook at /groups/sayswhovians. Our Facebook group is moderated by Janice Dillard and I cannot underline enough just how much action there is in that Facebook group now. Wow. Y'all are doing some good stuff.
Maureen: It is exciting that what... This podcast really does have a strong community.
Dan: It is a remarkable community.
Maureen: And I have to say this is one of the-- this has just been really fantastic. Being here with you and all you guys is how I've coped. I feel like I've learned a lot about just getting together with other people and really processing.
Dan: Yes, without a doubt.
Maureen: And I know that sounds all very surfacey and like oh... but really because I work on my own. My job means I work alone, I work from home, so I don't have to see people very often. I do a lot of... But it's true, I will say puppy is fast asleep on my lap, like just out and very content. But being able to really sit down every week and say, "Here's what's happening, did you see this too?" It's definitely helped me direct some of my anger, the silly anger that isn't helpful. It's good to have the anger, it's not good to have the silly anger that's just self-serving. The anger that-
Dan: Its just sort of frustrated anger.
Maureen: Or the anger that when I see people that have been in my life for high school or whatever that I'm like, I want to go and tell you you're wrong but that isn't useful. I'm not doing a useful thing. I'm not changing myself, I'm not changing society. I'm not putting my energy into something better. There just has to be a space where you can sit and say how you feel and then figure out what best to do with it. I didn't mean to go off on this.
Dan: No, I agree.
Maureen: Just that it's very important to have all of you guys and it means a lot to me.
Dan: It is and to see everyone just sharing little joys of the day with each other on Facebook is pretty remarkable. Spread the word about Says Who.
Maureen: Because this stuff sucks, it sucks that-
Dan: Yes it really does.
Maureen: It sucks that this happened, It sucks that they go out and just say that they do it, it sucks. It sucks and it makes you feel insane.
Dan: Yes. That sounds right.
Maureen: I'm getting the energy now that I was supposed to have like 45 minutes ago, sorry. I think that once you eventually hear all this stuff, that neuron that was trying to sleep through it, just went, "What?" and just lit up, like a Christmas tree.
Dan: That's good. It's good, I like it when you get your third wind at an hour and three in it's-
Maureen: And another thing... Sorry, go on.
Dan: You should spread the word about Says Who, subscribe if you are not subscribed and please leave stars and reviews on Apple podcast or wherever you listen. For real, there is just weird black magic shit that happens if you write reviews so we would very much appreciate it. I recently reconfigured our iTunes thing and now instead of being in the broader news category, we are in the news commentary category. And it is hilarious Maureen, because nobody is in that category and so we keep popping up in the top five in South Africa or Columbia or things like that and it makes no sense and it makes me laugh every time. And I bet if you write reviews, it will pop us even further because that is certainly part of the algorithm that Apple is looking at.
Maureen: It's like Dan and I live in a hot air balloon house and all of you are somehow making... you're actually giving us air, that's the thing that's keeping us floating. Come live in our hot air balloon house, does that make sense? It does not make sense. Dan, why did you let me do that?
Dan: That's another landmark for Sayswhovia, we have a hot air balloon-
Maureen: Hot air balloon house?
Dan: Yeah, I like that, I like that. Anyway, join us next Wednesday, October 30th for our next episode and if you are a subscriber to our town watch, you never know, stay vigilant, there may be an episode between now and then. But before October 30th, you can join Maureen Johnson this week in Austin, Texas at the Barton Springs Pool but also at the Texas Book Festival. And next month, November 22nd, you can catch Maureen in Miami with Will Smith at the Miami Book Fair.
Maureen: With Will Smith?
Dan: Because it's the Miami song, I never don't think of Will Smith's Miami song.
Maureen: What's the Miami song?
Dan: Come on, what. Going to Miami on Big Willie Style, come on Maureen, that is an amazing song.
Maureen: I don't know that one. I'm sure I do and I just don't think of it.
Dan: What? Where the video is all one continuous thing, where the cuts are weird morphs, so he's like in a fucking speedboat and then suddenly it like morphs out and he's doing a big dance on a big stage and they're having a party on South Beach, come on Maureen. Jesus Christ, you're going to Miami you don't even know Will Smith's Miami song. Anyway also-
Maureen: I like his summertime song, that's a good one.
Dan: Yes, same record goddammit, Big Willie Style, one of the greatest records ever made. Anyway, you can also catch Maureen Johnson on your TV with the new movie, Let It Snow coming out on November 8, starring Maureen Johnson, Don Johnson and John Ritter, trailers out today.
Maureen: Jesus.
Dan: What, I'm excited about your co-stars Maureen, anyway-
Maureen: Do you know, Don Johnson used to be married to Melanie Griffith, and he started dating Melanie Griffith when she was a teenager?
Dan: That seems to check out. He seems like he'd be a creep.
Maureen: Well, it was the 70s, so everyone was okay with everything. Because she lived in Hollywood and she had a pet lion.
Dan: Wow.
Maureen: It's true.
Dan: There you go; I don't know what to say about that.
Maureen: Her father was a director-
Dan: You do know what Miami Vice is, right?
Maureen: Mm-Hmm (affirmative).
Dan: Just checking, checking on your Miami knowledge.
Maureen: Of course, I know.
Dan: Well you didn't know Will Smith's Miami. (singing) Oh man, Phil Collins lives in Miami too, you could hang out with him.
Maureen: Does he?
Dan: Yeah, he does.
Maureen: I met his ex-wife once.
Dan: Yes, that was a brutal breakup.
Maureen: When I was in LA with my friend Cassie when her movie was coming out. And Lily Collins was in the movie and his ex-wife, Lily's mom, was there as well. And she's president of the, something like the Beverly Hills Women's Auxiliary or something, it's something amazing like that. It's incredible. It's everything you want it to be and more.
Dan: It is. Anyway, November 8th, and of course, us next week, October 30th, from my basement in Chicago, I am Dan Sinker.
Maureen: Puppy's having a dream, the eyelids are going, everything's twitching.
Dan: Just say your name.
Maureen: Oh, she just opened her eyes.
Dan: All right, wrap it up.
Maureen: From a liminal space between trips and yet in a grounded place, from a place of being alone but also never being alone, being part of a community. From a spiritual place and at the same time, an earthy place. A place with the carousel and a hot air balloon that we touch the earth, we touch the sky. We are concrete and yet we can just stick our hand right through there. I am Marley's ghost.
Dan: And his has been Says Who.
Maureen: I think I'm having an-
Dan: Space horses Maureen.
Maureen: I think I'm having an aneurysm.
Dan: Space horses.
Maureen: I don't think I'm well.
Dan: Space horses.